Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

REAList
Country: South Africa
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:40 pm

trekker1 wrote:Quote ....... "I recon my head cracked from old age".

Not from old age, if this were the case, then old stock would also be cracked without use.

I'm convinced, outside of cooling system failure, head failure is a consequence of temperature cycles, how many cold, hot, cold cycles the head is subject to.

So numerous short trips will see head cracks before fewer but longer distance trips over the same time, the latter having traveled a longer distance before failure.
Which may be the reason why road lorries run to ridiculous high mileages.


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CasperA
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:32 am

Nick Gibson wrote:Time for an update...

I have just rebuilt my motor for the second time last week...

I had a minor piston siezure on number 1 and 2 cylinders, had to put a new piston set in and luckily the scoring on the bores wasn't so bad, I got away with a rehone of the bores.

According to the the engineering shop I had a heat siezure, basically a hot spot or airlock in the coolant around the 2 pistons which caused them to sieze and collapse. This was giving me a rapping noise in the block which turned out to be piston slap.

Will post some pictures when I am in front of my pc again.

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Nick, mine did exactly the same. It was also air pockets etc etc! Check the return banjo bolt on the return at the back of the pump. If the pressure in the pump can not be relieved (after shutting of your engine) through the valve it keeps on spraying the diesel through the injectors thus causing a dry oil but over filled with diesel start. There is a ball valve in there that seizes. Mine once seized after 8 kms. I replaced mine with a banjo bolt with a oriface hole and no ball valve. The guy at the diesel shop said it was a banjo bolt from a 2.8d Colt engine, it is fine now.
CasperA
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:02 am

This what I took out. It is located at the back of the fuel pump above the injector pipe nipples. There is two pipes coming out of the banjo.
Attachments
Standerton-20160116-00878.jpg
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Nick Gibson
Country: South Africa
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:11 am

CasperA wrote:
Nick Gibson wrote:Time for an update...

I have just rebuilt my motor for the second time last week...

I had a minor piston siezure on number 1 and 2 cylinders, had to put a new piston set in and luckily the scoring on the bores wasn't so bad, I got away with a rehone of the bores.

According to the the engineering shop I had a heat siezure, basically a hot spot or airlock in the coolant around the 2 pistons which caused them to sieze and collapse. This was giving me a rapping noise in the block which turned out to be piston slap.

Will post some pictures when I am in front of my pc again.

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Nick, mine did exactly the same. It was also air pockets etc etc! Check the return banjo bolt on the return at the back of the pump. If the pressure in the pump can not be relieved (after shutting of your engine) through the valve it keeps on spraying the diesel through the injectors thus causing a dry oil but over filled with diesel start. There is a ball valve in there that seizes. Mine once seized after 8 kms. I replaced mine with a banjo bolt with a oriface hole and no ball valve. The guy at the diesel shop said it was a banjo bolt from a 2.8d Colt engine, it is fine now.
Thanks casper. I will have a look at that bolt, I know the one you are referring too. I am interested in your rebuilds, what happened that you had to do 5?

When I stripped mine down everything was perfect, just a stupid airlock caused my engine siezure.

4000km on these pistons.
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Nicholas Gibson

2005 Gen 3 Pajero 3.2 DiD Auto LWB
Mods:
ARB front bumper, OME, Lynx Bash Plate, Lynx Rock-sliders, Lynx rear steel bumper, Front Runner 40lt Long range tank, Madman EMS2 with EGT, dual battery system, 700FF spots

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"In my house I'm the boss, my wife is just the decision maker." - Woody Allen
CasperA
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:51 pm

What happened that you had to do 5?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Burns hole in piston nr 3 the first time, it ends up with pressure in the radiator but seizes before we fix the pressure in the water.
We overhaul it again, still pressure in the water and burns a hole in another piston. We rebuilt it again still pressure in the water. We took of the head and skimmed it. Still running with pressure in the water. The auto shop tells me to buy a new head. It is till running with pressure in the water. We strip down the engine again to skim the block, still running with pressure in the radiator. I take out the water temp probe from the head and I put 1,5 bars of pressure for a whole week on the water system. The auto shop shows me that the guys who bore it the first time chamfered the sleeves to much at the top in order the rings to go in easier. They took away two thirds of the metal that must cover the gasket. I buy a secondhand block from Martin. We do another rebuild. It seized up two times after this before we got to the root of the first hole in the piston. All my piston seized above the rings, your damage is below. So there must be a different cause. Best of luck!
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Nick Gibson
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:33 pm

Ok here is more reading on the damage I had on my pistons.

Here is the reference page with typical damage, I ruled out all others, the only one it matched was the piston skirt damage due to overheating.
Piston Damage.PNG
Piston Damage
Reference page
Piston Damage 1.PNG
Piston Damage 2
Symptoms and possible causes.
piston_damage.pdf
(3.08 MiB) Downloaded 31 times
Document.
Nicholas Gibson

2005 Gen 3 Pajero 3.2 DiD Auto LWB
Mods:
ARB front bumper, OME, Lynx Bash Plate, Lynx Rock-sliders, Lynx rear steel bumper, Front Runner 40lt Long range tank, Madman EMS2 with EGT, dual battery system, 700FF spots

Corsa 1.4 Club (swambo)


Cape Town

"In my house I'm the boss, my wife is just the decision maker." - Woody Allen
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Nick Gibson
Country: South Africa
Vehicle: 2005 Gen 3 Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB (AKA Pedro 2.0)
Location: Durbanville, Mikpunt (Small holding)
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:26 pm

Comments on the second engine re-build so far.

I am at 1200km so far, and will do my first oil and filter change this weekend. Car has not used a drop of oil or water and pulls like a train - happy chappy so far.

For CATS:
I decided to test my van to see if it heated up like yours did after your rebuild. The highest I had the coolant up too was 103 Deg C up a long up-hill up the N7 past the weigh-bridge, gunning from 80 - 150 KPH it in 39-40 Deg C heat. According to my MadMan the dash temp gauge stays steady from 78-95 Deg C, there after it increases slowly. At 103 Deg C it was just a smidgen above horizontal. I didn't want to push it further, EGT's maxed out at 660 Deg C at 2900 RPM at 150 Kph.


Car seems to start easier and pull readily as the new rings bed it, and idles smoothly. I had a CEL event yesterday afternoon at home and my heart nearly stopped, but turned out to be a error code 41 - throttle body control valve, it probably needs a bit of adjustment - not a biggie

Retrospect:
Looking back, I recon I did the initial piston damage at about 150km into the first running in process, when I took the car to work the first time. I was just picking up speed on the highway when she lost power and stalled - CEL came on. I coasted to the side of the highway and had a look at the engine bay, couldn't see anything wrong (oil, water leaks, etc) or any funny smells. I cautiously attempted a re-start and she caught first swing - must have been an airlock in the fuel system - or so I thought...

Ever since then I heard a light tapping noise at startup - similar to a noisy lifter on a V6 until the oil pressure builds up. At first it was only at startup and went away, then got progressively worse until it was doing it the whole time while driving, also with occasional bouts of of blue smoke until warmed up. When that happened I decided to pull the engine tear down and see what was wrong - I though small-ends bearing - but the blue smoke was puzzling me. In the end, it turned out to be piston slap due to the over-heat and resultant collapse of the pistons.

Suspected cause:
Steam pocket or airlock/hotspot due to lack of coolant. Possible coolant bleeding issue?

Initial rebuild bleeding of coolant.
Before the first start last year, I slowly filled up the coolant via the radiator cap, and stopping often to 'burp' the system by pumping the upper and lower coolant hoses. Once brimmed I left it to idle the engine warm while checking the coolant level with the cap off. I must have missed something along the way, perhaps in one of the heater matrix, as I did not switch these on.

Second rebuild Bleeding of coolant:
I made sure this time round that I did it correctly, and bought castrol radicool (red/purple in colour) to be mixed 50/50%. When teh engine was out, I also completely flushed the entire heating matrix system of any previous green plexus coolant with a garden hose on low pressure connected to the heater hoses.
In order to do this, I connected the battery to power up the front and rear Climate controls and then turned both heaters on to max to open the valves in order to flush with water. I let it run about 20-25 liters of water though (4 full buckets) until the water ran clear. New OEM 76.5 Deg C thermostat as well. Once engine was in again, I idled the car warm (80 Deg C) on a incline with the cap off topping up as necessary.

So far so good... I will update the thread in a bit with my costs, I just need to find all my slips and do a tally up!
Nicholas Gibson

2005 Gen 3 Pajero 3.2 DiD Auto LWB
Mods:
ARB front bumper, OME, Lynx Bash Plate, Lynx Rock-sliders, Lynx rear steel bumper, Front Runner 40lt Long range tank, Madman EMS2 with EGT, dual battery system, 700FF spots

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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:42 pm

I missed the "2nd rebuild" post.
Nick, I really hope this one is perfect now.
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CATS
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Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:32 pm

Eish Pedro

I wish I could do all of that myself and rebuild my old engine. I truly hope yours are now 100% sorted. I miss my old Snoopy a lot. Casper is doing OK, but he ain't the same as my Snoopy. I wonder how it is still doing with the new owner?

What is worrying is that even with your meticulous and personal attention to detail something still went wrong the first time. I tried to throw money at mine to get it 100% back to what it was before. It seems that you truly need to treat these engines with cat gloves when doing a rebuild to get it done right. In this respect I think a lot of thanks must go to you for documenting your whole process and also the research that you have done in the matter through which all of us and the internet world as a whole can learn from!

CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
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Nick Gibson
Country: South Africa
Vehicle: 2005 Gen 3 Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB (AKA Pedro 2.0)
Location: Durbanville, Mikpunt (Small holding)
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:19 pm

Re: Pedro the Pajeros’ 4M41 engine rebuild.

Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:54 am

CATS wrote:Eish Pedro

I wish I could do all of that myself and rebuild my old engine. I truly hope yours are now 100% sorted. I miss my old Snoopy a lot. Casper is doing OK, but he ain't the same as my Snoopy. I wonder how it is still doing with the new owner?

What is worrying is that even with your meticulous and personal attention to detail something still went wrong the first time. I tried to throw money at mine to get it 100% back to what it was before. It seems that you truly need to treat these engines with cat gloves when doing a rebuild to get it done right. In this respect I think a lot of thanks must go to you for documenting your whole process and also the research that you have done in the matter through which all of us and the internet world as a whole can learn from!

CATS
Thanks cats. And again for giving me a new radiator, must say I am more confident in my vehicle now with no niggling feeling of the radiator about to pop..... I Will keep this thread active with post as I go along.

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Nicholas Gibson

2005 Gen 3 Pajero 3.2 DiD Auto LWB
Mods:
ARB front bumper, OME, Lynx Bash Plate, Lynx Rock-sliders, Lynx rear steel bumper, Front Runner 40lt Long range tank, Madman EMS2 with EGT, dual battery system, 700FF spots

Corsa 1.4 Club (swambo)


Cape Town

"In my house I'm the boss, my wife is just the decision maker." - Woody Allen

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