What does that light do!?

Got stuck? How to get unstuck. How to use your Pajero.
User avatar
Gemaskerde Tuinvurk
Country: South Africa
Vehicle: 2007 Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB
Location: Northern Johannesburg
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:51 pm

What does that light do!?

Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:29 pm

On a recent trip to lesotho, I descended a very steep, muddy/icy hill. When I turned with the road, the front of the car started to slide (I was locked in 1st, low range or LLc).

I then noticed the 'skid' light come on, and each time it flickered I could feel braking - causing me to move more in the direction where I was steering (and not down the slope).

As I understand it, the stability control turns off when you go to HLc and LLc... so what was this then? The traction control?

Not sure what it was, but it was pretty nifty! (swambo didnt even notice it happening :))
Karl

Image
User avatar
KaiV
Vehicle: Pajero
Location: Midrand, Gauteng
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:38 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:17 pm

Cant say that I've had that in mine. I'm pretty sure all ABS and ASC features are OFF :D when LLc is engaged., or should be
User avatar
4ePajero
Vehicle: 1989 Pajero LWB
Location: East London
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:59 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:03 pm

There was a discussion on the forum a while back and although my Pajero was built before either TC or Stability Control was invented ;) , it was clear that my Touareg's system is similar.

Stability Control (SC) is what kicks in if a wheel skids. The ECU reacts by cutting engine power.

TC reacts when one/more wheel(s) lose traction. The ECU uses the ABS system to brake the wheel(s) that lost traction, which diverts the torque to wheels with traction.

In your case I presume both front wheels were still turning at the same speed, so SC cut in.
Whether it should have, I don't know.
Gerrit does know! ;)
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Image
User avatar
RoelfleRoux
Country: SA
Vehicle: 2008 3.8V6 LWB Pajero
Location: Barberton, Lowveld
Posts: 1676
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:42 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:52 am

Yip, Gerrit will know.

But here is what I'm starting to believe re the SC and TC of the Pajero. When you de-activate the SC by either pushing the button or engaging 4LLc, then certain aspects of SC are de-activated. I'm starting to realise that the system cannot be truly categorised as SC and TC as separate systems.

So yip, the clever engineers in Japan have happily introduced electronics to our Pajeros that know more about 4x4 driving and safety than we do. Kmroloff, if you thought it nifty and SWAMBO didn't even notice, then good on those clever engineers.
Image
User avatar
Gemaskerde Tuinvurk
Country: South Africa
Vehicle: 2007 Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB
Location: Northern Johannesburg
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:54 pm

Dont get me wrong - I'm no fan of Hill Descent Control electronics - the very reason I went for a diesel was that I prefer low range 1st decents to HDC.

I was just surprised to see the TC light come on while in low range... and at that stage it stopped the car from sliding in the wrong direction.
Karl

Image
User avatar
Gerrit Loubser
Vehicle: 2003 Pajero Gen 3 DiD LWB A/T
Location: Richards Bay
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:40 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:45 pm

kmroloff wrote:On a recent trip to lesotho, I descended a very steep, muddy/icy hill. When I turned with the road, the front of the car started to slide (I was locked in 1st, low range or LLc).

I then noticed the 'skid' light come on, and each time it flickered I could feel braking - causing me to move more in the direction where I was steering (and not down the slope).

As I understand it, the stability control turns off when you go to HLc and LLc... so what was this then? The traction control?

Not sure what it was, but it was pretty nifty! (swambo didnt even notice it happening :))
My guess would be that you have encountered an aspect of the traction control system called Engine Brake Assist Control or EBAC. EBAC is only activated if the following conditions are met:
1) 4LLc engaged
2) Transmission locked in first gear
3) Driver does not apply the brakes

In an extreme undulating/low traction hill descent one of the most common occurences is that individual wheels lift off the terrain as the vehicle is cross-axled on its way down. Once this happens, all engine braking from the axle in question is lost, just as all drive torque would be lost if one were on the way up. Losing all brake torque from an axle could mean that the other axle is simply not able to control the descent any more as its wheels simply slip on the low traction terrain. In an extreme case both axles could actually spin out due to being cross axled. The EBAC system uses the individual wheel brakes to prevent lifted wheels from spinning out and thus counters this loss of brake torque.

EBAC is not quite the same thing as the hill descent control systems fitted by some other manufacturers, as it does not attempt to regulate the descent speed using the brakes, but rather attempts to maximize the traction so that the engine braking can control the descent speed.

By the way, the stability control is only automatically de-activated in 4LLc as far as I know and not in 4Hlc. Also, the ABS brakes are never de-activated, but the Pajero has a so-called Multimode ABS with different callibration settings for 2H and 4H than for 4HLc and 4LLc.
Gerrit Loubser Image

2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD

2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed :-(

1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed :-(

1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
User avatar
4ePikanini
Affiliate Member
Contact:
Country: South Africa
Vehicle: 2001 Pajero LWB 3.2 Di-D GLS
Location: East London, South Africa
Posts: 2790
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:38 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:54 pm

Gerrit Loubser wrote:....... Also, the ABS brakes are never de-activated, but the Pajero has a so-called Multimode ABS with different callibration settings for 2H and 4H than for 4HLc and 4LLc.
Can you (or anyone else) expand on this? I have never heard of this before. I'd like to know more about it. Gen3/Gen4?
Marius Fourie
MY DIY WEBSITE
2005 Touareg R5 Air & Bi-Xenon
Image
User avatar
Gemaskerde Tuinvurk
Country: South Africa
Vehicle: 2007 Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB
Location: Northern Johannesburg
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:19 pm

Gerrit Loubser wrote:
kmroloff wrote:On a recent trip to lesotho, I descended a very steep, muddy/icy hill. When I turned with the road, the front of the car started to slide (I was locked in 1st, low range or LLc).

I then noticed the 'skid' light come on, and each time it flickered I could feel braking - causing me to move more in the direction where I was steering (and not down the slope).

As I understand it, the stability control turns off when you go to HLc and LLc... so what was this then? The traction control?

Not sure what it was, but it was pretty nifty! (swambo didnt even notice it happening :))
My guess would be that you have encountered an aspect of the traction control system called Engine Brake Assist Control or EBAC. EBAC is only activated if the following conditions are met:
1) 4LLc engaged
2) Transmission locked in first gear
3) Driver does not apply the brakes

In an extreme undulating/low traction hill descent one of the most common occurences is that individual wheels lift off the terrain as the vehicle is cross-axled on its way down. Once this happens, all engine braking from the axle in question is lost, just as all drive torque would be lost if one were on the way up. Losing all brake torque from an axle could mean that the other axle is simply not able to control the descent any more as its wheels simply slip on the low traction terrain. In an extreme case both axles could actually spin out due to being cross axled. The EBAC system uses the individual wheel brakes to prevent lifted wheels from spinning out and thus counters this loss of brake torque.

EBAC is not quite the same thing as the hill descent control systems fitted by some other manufacturers, as it does not attempt to regulate the descent speed using the brakes, but rather attempts to maximize the traction so that the engine braking can control the descent speed.

By the way, the stability control is only automatically de-activated in 4LLc as far as I know and not in 4Hlc. Also, the ABS brakes are never de-activated, but the Pajero has a so-called Multimode ABS with different callibration settings for 2H and 4H than for 4HLc and 4LLc.
Indeed... Gerrit does know :)

For a moment I started to think I imagined it...
Karl

Image
User avatar
Gerrit Loubser
Vehicle: 2003 Pajero Gen 3 DiD LWB A/T
Location: Richards Bay
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:40 pm

Re: What does that light do!?

Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:57 pm

4ePikanini wrote:
Gerrit Loubser wrote:....... Also, the ABS brakes are never de-activated, but the Pajero has a so-called Multimode ABS with different callibration settings for 2H and 4H than for 4HLc and 4LLc.
Can you (or anyone else) expand on this? I have never heard of this before. I'd like to know more about it. Gen3/Gen4?
Marius, I started a new thread to discuss this.
Gerrit Loubser Image

2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD

2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed :-(

1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed :-(

1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD

Return to “Techniques (Driving, Recovery etc)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login · Register

Latest Posts

Login  •  Register