Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
Roelf,

Turbos 101

A turbo consists of a shaft with two impellers on it, one on each side.
.
Basic Turbo.jpg
The one impeller is driven by the exhaust gasses (this is the turbine).
The other impeller (driven by the turbine shaft) compresses the input air (this is the compressor)

This is what the Di-D's turbo looks like:
Mitsubishi 3.2 Di-D turbo
Mitsubishi 3.2 Di-D turbo
The amount of boost is regulated by a mechanical boost relief system. It simply wastes some boost once the pre-set boost figure is exceeded:
dI-d turbo 2.JPG

These two images show the innerds:
782px-Turbocharger.jpg
turbo3.jpg
Each of the turbine and the compressor thus have an inlet and an outlet side.
If you now look at the original photographs again, it is clear that it is the compressor impeller that is FUBAR
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Image
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
Variable Geometry Turbos

(with acknowledgement to Paul Tan's Automotive news)
VTG.gif
VTG.gif (550.96 KiB) Viewed 2454 times
Variable Turbine Geometry technology is the next generation in turbocharger technology where the turbo uses variable vanes to control exhaust flow against the turbine blades. See, the problem with the turbocharger that we’ve all come to know and love is that big turbos do not work well at slow engine speeds, while small turbos are fast to spool but run out of steam pretty quick. So how do VTG turbos solve this problem?

A Variable Turbine Geometry turbocharger is also known as a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT), or a Variable Nozzle Turbine (VNT). A turbocharger equipped with Variable Turbine Geometry has little movable vanes which can direct exhaust flow onto the turbine blades. The vane angles are adjusted via an actuator. The angle of the vanes vary throughout the engine RPM range to optimize turbine behaviour.
VTG01.jpg
In the illustration above, you can see the vanes in a angle which is almost closed. I have highlighted the variable vanes so you know which is which. This position is optimized for low engine RPM speeds, pre-boost.
VTG02.jpg
In this cut-through diagram, you can see the direction of exhaust flow when the variable vanes are in an almost closed angle. The narrow passage of which the exhaust gas has to flow through accelerates the exhaust gas towards the turbine blades, making them spin faster. The angle of the vanes also directs the gas to hit the blades at the proper angle.

Above are how the VGT vanes look like when they are open. I’ve not highlighted where the vanes are in this image since you already know where they are, as to not spoil the mechanical beauty that it is.

This cut-through diagram shows the exhaust gas flow when the variable turbine vanes are fully open. The high exhaust flow at high engine speeds are fully directed onto the turbine blades by the variable vanes.

This example shows the VGT with actuator.
VTG05.jpg
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Image
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
Summary

Here it is all put together:
Turbo Terms.jpg
Overall, the turbo thus looks like this.
  • (1) Turbine casing,
  • (2) Movable guide vanes,
  • (3) Turbine wheel,
  • (4) Electric motor for guide vane adjustment (where installed),
  • (5) Guide vane adjuster,
  • (6) Compressor casing,
  • (7) Compressor wheel,
  • (8) Excess pressure valve,
  • (9) Oil inlet,
  • (10) Coolant inlet.
More good reading here
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Image
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
4ePajero wrote: If you now look at the original photographs again, it is clear that it is the compressor impeller that is FUBAR
Thanks for this. So if it is the compressor side, what your are saying is that the Exhaust Gasses and even the boost had nothing to do with the failure. I am starting to understand this thing a bit better now. So it seems that Roelf's concern about the intercooler might be valid, as this is the next item in the process?

Why would the shaft have damage? According to the photos and explanantion earlier on, this is caused by loss of lubrication due to old or contaminated oil. Will this be the cause for that?

Does a turbo needs to be serviced in any way to prevent failure, like say new bearings etc? When will the time be for that? Or does one leave it alone until it makes funny noises?

CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
Image
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
CATS wrote:Thanks for this. So if it is the compressor side, what your are saying is that the Exhaust Gasses and even the boost had nothing to do with the failure.
Yes, although the failure occurred at high boost (rpm) by the OP's admission. The high boost caused a high suction in the inlet, which most probably picked up a pebble / sand grain from the air cleaner housing.
CATS wrote:I am starting to understand this thing a bit better now. So it seems that Roelf's concern about the intercooler might be valid, as this is the next item in the process?
The intercooler is a radiator, which in this case acted like a strained and this could very well have saved the engine, if we assume that the pieces are stuck in the intercooler.
Yes, I would remove the intercooler and service it (which is a good idea in any case).
CATS wrote:Why would the shaft have damage? According to the photos and explanantion earlier on, this is caused by loss of lubrication due to old or contaminated oil. Will this be the cause for that?
Shaft movement is usually only a function of kms (wear) and bad oil, but an incident like this could have cuased additional damage.
CATS wrote:Does a turbo needs to be serviced in any way to prevent failure, like say new bearings etc? When will the time be for that? Or does one leave it alone until it makes funny noises?
The turbo is not usually "serviced". There is nothing to "service".
Inspection of the shaft play will be an indication of the wear and possibility / probablity of pending failure.
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Image
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
4ePajero
Dirty oil? Every 7500km I service the Pajero at the agents and I don't think dirty oil can be the cause of this failure.

Since asking the question on the internet, how long should a turbo last, I have had feedback from 3 Pajero owners and their turbos lasted to approx. 180000 km's?

I did a dune trip last year October between Luderitz and Saddlehill. Your theory of a sand grain can be valid. However before we returned home, I did remove the air filter to check for sand and found nothing. This trip was between 188500km's and 195000km's. The Pajero was serviced at 195000km's, no turbo whistle. The whistle started just before the next service at 203500 km's (was suppose to be done on 202500km's)

The fins shown are on the side going into the intercooler/engine. The fins at the exhaust side are ok.

My feeling is, a turbo is like the chain tensioner on the diesel or a cambelt on a petrol, I will in future check mine every 100000km's
Martin Bouwer

2018 Pajero DiD LWB Exceed
2017 Triton 2.4 DC
2015 Pajero DiD LWB Exceed - Sold
2005 Pajero DiD LWB GLS - Sold
2008 Echo Kavango
User avatar
Affiliate Member
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
mimmo on this forum has done nearly 700'000km on his 3.2 Di-D with the original turbo and injectors.

The translux busses do well over a million km's on original turbos and injectors.

Modern engines will always (there are exceptions) outlast the rest of the vehicle if care is taken IMHO.
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
martinbo wrote:4ePajero
Dirty oil? Every 7500km I service the Pajero at the agents and I don't think dirty oil can be the cause of this failure.
If you read my post(s) carefully, you will realise that I said
  • The shaft movement / wear can be the result of bad / dirty oil.
  • The impeller failure can be due to a number ofreasons. I said (and still think) it was a particle of some kind that started the impeller breaking up
Thus, I never implied that oil caused the impeller failure.

Turbos last anything from 10kms to 1 000 000+ kms.
I sold my Isuzu 280DT with more than 330000 kms on the original engine and the turbo (as were most other parts) were still in 100% condition)
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Image
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
WOW, this is possibly the most informative thread on any forum or online research 'blackboard' that I have ever come across! Seriously...

If there is an award for 'Technical Lesson Sharing for Dummy Awards' at the end of the year - i'm voting this one! :P
Re: Turbo on Pajero LWB 3.2 DiD
4ePajero wrote:
CATS wrote:Why would the shaft have damage? According to the photos and explanantion earlier on, this is caused by loss of lubrication due to old or contaminated oil. Will this be the cause for that?
Shaft movement is usually only a function of kms (wear) and bad oil, but an incident like this could have cuased additional damage.
That makes sense. So in essence the unbalanced fins, due to the foreign matter that destroyed it, increased the strain on the shaft, beyond original design parameters, and thus led to the shafts being damaged as well.

Martin - I am standing at 245 000km with my 3.2 Did and thus far no turbo issues(Touch wood), so the 'fact' that you quote other people all having failures of turbo's on 180 000 odd km might not be a true reflection of the average life of the 3.2 Did turbos.

I agree - Very informative thread and thanks to Martin for allowing us to discuss all the relevant issues and function of a turbo on his initial posting. I definately learned a LOT!

CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
Image
Post Reply