pajeroowner
Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Hello everyone,

I have been reading articles regularly on this board for nearly 2 years and thanks for sharing a wealth of knowledge. This is my first post as I have not been able to find a direct answer to the above question and I hope you guys can give some answers as I am sure many people sit with the same question and this is starting to haunt me an night ... :D .
I don't want to open a diesel vs. petrol debate as we all know that both have their pros and cons in terms of towing, offroading, city travelling, overlanding, dune riding etc.

The only variable I want to explore here is which option is more cost effective in terms of only RUNNING and MAINTENANCE cost over the long run eg. 200 000km. ?
Currently I have a Gen3 2004 3.8V6 with 98 000km and it is an awesome car, BUT, I am starting to wonder if a Diesel of similar age and km. would not be a "cheaper" option. I get on average about 14.7l/100 (6.8 km/l) and let's assume a 3.2DiD gets 4l/100km less. That equates to roughly R 44 / 100km cheaper than the Petrol. Over 200 000km that equates to R 88 000 going up in smoke, ouch !

BUT, and this is where I get stuck and need some advice from you guys:
During this time, the Diesel got 26 (7500km) oil services and the Petrol got 13. If we assume an oil+filter service on both engines cost R 1 000, then we have to deduct R 13 000 from the R 88 000, leaving us with R 75 000.

Now maybe I have answered my own question, but to me it looks as if R 75 000 is a lot of cash in the diesel "kitty" as let's assume during the 200 000km one had to replace the injectors and diesel pump, now I don't know the cost of these parts, but I am taking a guess at R 40 000, than the Diesel still wins with R 35 000 in the "kitty" and then we have assumed that the petrol costed R 0 on fuel pump, fuel injection, head and anything else that could potentially go wrong with a petrol. Then of course there is also the chance that nothing went wrong with the diesel as I have read in the long distance section with diesels in excess of 200 000km who have not had any work done on the engine. So from a pure risk perspective it seems to me as if diesel wins as there is a chance I could score R 75 000 on the diesel. Even if you are in the fortunate position to buy new, the diesel is only R 15 000 more, so you could still "score" R 60 000 on the diesel.

This is my theory, how does your pratical experience match up ? How much does a DiD head/injectors/turbo/diesel pump cost and what is the likelihood for these items to be replaced within a 200 000km range ?

Thanks in advance.
Anton.
GertM
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Welcome to the fray, Anton.

I'm not in a position to answer you on this one as I only had my car for about six months, but I am sure there will be someone that can clarify this for you. Interesting topic, nevertheless...
RoelfleRoux
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Paj-owner,

Welcome here.

You under estimate the DiD consumption somewhat...I recon 3L/100km less is closer to the truth... that closes the gap by about 30% on your calcs.

STILL....

If you buy new, the contest is a no brainer: the diesel will win every time, because:
1) The first 100 000km is free servicing - both ways
2) The diesel and the petrol should both last 200 000km without too much hassle in the break-down dept.

BUT...

If you were to trade the V6 now for a DiD with 100 000km on the clock and want to go another 200 000km, then I think the mathematics could go pear shape. Repairs on the diesel pump/injectors can be bank breakers.

My personal position is simple: I pay R1000 per month more for fuel than I would have if it was a DiD.. BUT... to replace the V6 with a DiD with similar km (90 000) will cost me much more than the R1000 per month "penalty" I now pay.

Similar when I bought the V6: I traded a 2006 DiD GLS LWB with 70k on the clock, put R30k cash in my pocket and bought the 2006 V6 SWB with 28k on the clock and paid R4000 per month less to the banks.

In other words: the situation can dictate in differnt ways which is the most expensive version to own. Also, I prefer the driving characteristics of the V6 mated to the tip-tronic and traction/stability control, much more than on the DiD.
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
The DID engine does seem to be very reliable and I've considered switching myself. Two things have convinced me to stay with the petrol:

1. I had a very sneaky water leak which caused the engine to run without water a few times. Once it even cut out to prevent overheating. Solution: Fix leak, add water, drive. If it was a diesel, I might have had to rebuild/replace the engine. The petrol engine is really tough and it also rarely revs very high, so the chances for serious damage is less.

2. If you read this forum, the diesel owners are foreever tinkering with their engines, removing EGRs, Cats, adding additives (2SO etc). It looks like its a lot of work to own the diesel engine. I just fill up with petrol - regularly ;)

I know number 2 is not really a cost, unless you (like me) think in terms of time = money.
Pierre-Andre
2001 Pajero 3.5 GLS LWB
2001 Colt 3000i 4x4 D/C (SOLD)
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pajeroowner
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Thanks Roelf and Pierre-Andre for your views and additional insight that you guys bring forward. I think my "gat jeuk" :P , ha ha ... because if I have to remind myself as to why I originally bought the V6 two years ago, I have done intensive investigation and debating with myself and I basically concluded back then that I would only buy a diesel if I can buy it new or I knew the owner, and you have confirmed these thoughts. I think one has to be diesel minded to drive a diesel properly and drive it with care. The most diesels I had a look at that fit my budget of R200k, had in excess of 130 000km and I bought the V6 with only 78 000km on the clock. At 90 000km I did the major expensive service and cambelt change at Mitspro and also replaced all the oils, so it may not be wise to change now as the engine is now good for another 90 000km. and I need to get some value from the service :)
I once owned a Mercedes c250 TD in 2003 and I remember now how in shock I was when I was told that I had to spend R15k on injectors and glowplugs, and that at 160 000km. It is human nature not to budget for these unforeseen surprises and I only replaced the glowplugs because the car was hard to start, at as cost of around R5k if I remember correctly. 4 months later an Uno hit me from behind and the insurance company wrote the car off, so I was glad that I didn't spend the full amount.
The 3.2 diesel is a lot more popular than the V6 and therefor if you compare the same year model and kilometers, the 2nd hand diesel is probably at least 10% more expensive, which is also another factor one has to take into account.

What about some input from the DiD owners, specifically ones which came a long way and guys who switched to DiD and vice versa ?

Regards
Anton.
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
I have also thought about the pros / cons of the DiD vs V6... and the V6 is tempting when looking at what is available 2nd hand. Here are some of the things I thought of...
  • I have a DiD, and haven't had to tinker with anything - I just fill up and drive :)
  • The consumption I get is around 11L/100km (in standard form, mixed driving - i.e. std tires and not accessories).
  • There are lots more DiDs around, so you are probably more likely to hear about people discussing diesel related things like EGR, additives, etc.
  • Some people have commented here that the extra torque of the DiD is actually better for overtaking, etc. and that it accelerates faster in gear than the V6?
  • The extra driving range that you get from a tank of fuel on the DiD is very nice for overlanding. The alternative of carrying more fuel takes up more space and adds weight.
2008 Pajero DiDc LWB GLS
2005 Pajero DiD SWB GLS (sold)
Biggish
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Hi Pierreandre,

You indicate that owners of the diesels are always tinkering with CAT/EGR removal, additives, etc. Exactly the same can be said for owners of the petrols with their CAT removals, free flow exhausts, chips, etc.
Fact is there are always going to be some owners that will tinker and then there are other owners who fill up and drive - diesel or petrol irrespective.

My diesel now has almost 130000km and all I've ever done to it is add fuel and check oil, water and tyres :D

Cheers
B
RoelfleRoux
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Those DiD's are wonderfull motors and like I said earlier, buying new is almost a no brainer..

I loved the way the DiD would just stay in 5th and cruise up and down every hill you want to throw at it.
I love the way the 3.8V6 just slips quietly to 4th if the hill is steep and emits a soft purr to thank me for the opportunity of breathing freely for a few seconds.

I loved the 800km to 1000km I could cruise in my DiD.
I am almost used to having to stop in every town for petrol.

The DiD doesn't like the interference from the traction and stability control.
The V6 just uses that technology to accelerate and corner with smooth aggression.

I think I found the answer: Find a nice Pajero, buy it and enjoy it. Read the manual to find out if you should stop at the petrol or diesel pump.
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Roelf

I think you have summarised this debate up BEAUTIFULLY!! Being a member that have driven both variants also add a huge amount of value to your statements as it is straight from the horse's mouth!

I currently own a 3.2 Did which I enjoy driving everyday but my first introduction to 4x4 and indeed Mitsu was a V6 3000 Colt (box shape). It was a lovely vehicle and I remember when I bought it that I was actually hard at look for a 2.8TD KB Isuzu. AT the price that I could afford the Colt was a great buy but the petrol consumption was holding me back. My wife went with me to test drive the vehicle a second time and as we got out she said : Buy the car as it is a huge step up from the KB's that we could get and make peace with the petrol, If you DO buy it I NEVER want to hear complaints about petrol consumption! :lol: So I bought it and got a new pumped up garage card! Man I enjoyed that vehicle and we had HUGE amounts of fun in it! Now isnt that the reason why we should buy a car?

CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
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pajeroowner
Re: Long term maintenance costs of 3.8v6 vs. 3.2DiD
Thanks guys for some very interesting perspectives. I guess the only solution for my "itch" is to scratch it and experience the DiD for myself and see which best matches my personal taste and practcal application. :roll:

I agree with CATS wrt. Roelf's statement : Find a nice Pajero, buy it and enjoy it. Read the manual to find out if you should stop at the petrol or diesel pump. This is very true and certainly gives me a different view as afterall, that is why you buy a Pajero, to enjoy ... :D Total running and ownership cost of a 4x4 is high and the V6 / DiD variable is only a portion of it.
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