engine 6G74 3.5L V6 GDi.... 2002 Pajero 75W
In the process of cleaning my rockers... whilst still on the vehicle
The air Intake manifold is off as well as the rocker covers.... I want to clean out as much oil residue as I can from the rocker area without taking the cylinder heads off ( I know I should but I am trying to avoid this).... I should say that the sump is also off.
I thought I could move the rockers and clean them and then clean the rockers area of the cylinder head.
The issue I have is that the cylinder head incorporates holes for the spark plugs but particularly air holes for the air intake manifold?.
What problems am I facing getting any residue oil or sludge or anything down these air holes...
I did read that with the sump off I could clean that rocker area and try and drain everything whilst draining through the sump area. I may even try some sort of diesel or other solvent wash with compressed air and a fine nozzle on the rockers area?
Any of you guys have an idea how to protect these holes?
Any help is as always very much appreciated
Thanks
I was wondering how you were getting along. I don't know if anyone appreciates how "remote" you actually are. I do and that is also why I am going to this trouble to help you. We went to help someone that was fishing there, that had seriously broken down there a while back.
Well done, I hope it all works out well for you. Our only concern is that there was damage that occured as a result of no oil pressure. That we will only find out when you start it for the first time. You need to run a considerable amount to cause serious damage.
If you can, with the oil filter off, pour clean oil into the inside of the pipe where the oil filter screws on before you start. Maybe 500ml with a squirt bottle or oil can. You can do it a few times, rotating the engine slightly / a few degrees. This will just lubricate the bearings a bit when you start.
Remember that the sludge originated inside the engine, so it should not be that highly detrimental if an odd / few small bits of carbon might slip past. I would however do my best to prevent it. Sand and grit is a bigger problem though. Stuff toilet paper or old cloths tightly into the intake holes. Keep everything covered / closed while not working in an area. Make sure you get all the cloths or toilet paper out at the end.
Work slowly, neatly and methodically. If you fit something do not leave any bolts etc to come back to later - tighten there and then. Mark bolts tightened if necessary. Make sure you put the same bolts back in the right place. Keep us posted.
Well done, I hope it all works out well for you. Our only concern is that there was damage that occured as a result of no oil pressure. That we will only find out when you start it for the first time. You need to run a considerable amount to cause serious damage.
If you can, with the oil filter off, pour clean oil into the inside of the pipe where the oil filter screws on before you start. Maybe 500ml with a squirt bottle or oil can. You can do it a few times, rotating the engine slightly / a few degrees. This will just lubricate the bearings a bit when you start.
Remember that the sludge originated inside the engine, so it should not be that highly detrimental if an odd / few small bits of carbon might slip past. I would however do my best to prevent it. Sand and grit is a bigger problem though. Stuff toilet paper or old cloths tightly into the intake holes. Keep everything covered / closed while not working in an area. Make sure you get all the cloths or toilet paper out at the end.
Work slowly, neatly and methodically. If you fit something do not leave any bolts etc to come back to later - tighten there and then. Mark bolts tightened if necessary. Make sure you put the same bolts back in the right place. Keep us posted.
Thanks for invaluable advice... if you are not a mechanic and live remotely as you say.... advice is the only way you can get the confidence to undertake a job like this.
I must say that the Pajero is a great car, but I do find it disheartening that you really need a mechanic garage just to change the spark plugs... gone are the days when i used to tinker on cars and pop the bonnet, use a spark plug spanner and ... hey presto... easy.
You need a methodical approach and a lot of guys to change a spark plug yourself.
As for the sump..... good grief...!!.... I don't think I found a manual from anywhere which said you really have to take the exhaust off to get to the two rear 6 inch thin bolts....
No wonder mechanics in Botswana hate theses cars.
Fortunately I stopped using the car as soon as the oil pressure light came on... and thats why Im pursuing this as its a million hours labour to do that I am doing at a cost probably worth more than the car itself..
It just looks really gunky and if I can get the sludge out, worth the process...
sump and pickup now cleared completely .... just done to the oil ways and the rockers etc...
I must say that the Pajero is a great car, but I do find it disheartening that you really need a mechanic garage just to change the spark plugs... gone are the days when i used to tinker on cars and pop the bonnet, use a spark plug spanner and ... hey presto... easy.
You need a methodical approach and a lot of guys to change a spark plug yourself.
As for the sump..... good grief...!!.... I don't think I found a manual from anywhere which said you really have to take the exhaust off to get to the two rear 6 inch thin bolts....
No wonder mechanics in Botswana hate theses cars.
Fortunately I stopped using the car as soon as the oil pressure light came on... and thats why Im pursuing this as its a million hours labour to do that I am doing at a cost probably worth more than the car itself..
It just looks really gunky and if I can get the sludge out, worth the process...
sump and pickup now cleared completely .... just done to the oil ways and the rockers etc...
I do believe that one of the problems is that Pajero's do not normally give hassles. So the mechanics who do then have to work on them, do not have an information source to depend on. My son had a V6 and yes replacing the plugs is not a simple task.
Hang in there it will be worth it.
So how blocked was the oil pump pick up?
Cleaning the sludge out of the tappet cover you can use petrol or diesel. When you start up run it for a short period with any cheap and nasty engine oil and drain. This will get rid of any cleaning solvent that stayed behind. Then fill with new oil (preferably a heavy duty diesel engine oil as mentioned previously) and filter.
Hang in there it will be worth it.
So how blocked was the oil pump pick up?
Cleaning the sludge out of the tappet cover you can use petrol or diesel. When you start up run it for a short period with any cheap and nasty engine oil and drain. This will get rid of any cleaning solvent that stayed behind. Then fill with new oil (preferably a heavy duty diesel engine oil as mentioned previously) and filter.
Peterpot
You replies are invaluable....
The oil pickup was fairly blocked and no very clean.... its really the rocker area that is very sludgy with oil the consistency of thick butter... removable but I really need better access to all the nooks and crannies which is why I could do with removing rockers
However, I think that this car has broken me ....
I have the GDi type of 6G74 engine which doesn't have the normal rockers and rocker shaft assembly (where you normally can just remove the rocker covers and then the rocker shafts WITHOUT touching the camshaft or timing etc...)
Mine has the large Beam Camshaft Caps and what appears to be no rocker "shaft".
from the workshop manual it looks like I do have to take the camshafts off and camshaft oil seals... but I cant really tell if I need to remove timing belt etc....
I have undone all the bolts ON TOP of this Beam Camshaft Cap (20 around the outside and 3 running though the centre)... but its stuck fast... are there any other bolts on the sides or at the back I need to undo?... I cant see any.
I know this Beam Camshaft Cap has strong sealant.... is that what holding it tight? If so... how to I break the seal?
Remember, i am trying to effectively clean this without removing the camshaft or especially, no to muck around with the timing as thats where my expertise ends.
This is proving very difficult to do as home..... best i can do is pressure spray White spirits into the rocker area (if I cant remove this Beam Camshaft Cap).
You replies are invaluable....
The oil pickup was fairly blocked and no very clean.... its really the rocker area that is very sludgy with oil the consistency of thick butter... removable but I really need better access to all the nooks and crannies which is why I could do with removing rockers
However, I think that this car has broken me ....
I have the GDi type of 6G74 engine which doesn't have the normal rockers and rocker shaft assembly (where you normally can just remove the rocker covers and then the rocker shafts WITHOUT touching the camshaft or timing etc...)
Mine has the large Beam Camshaft Caps and what appears to be no rocker "shaft".
from the workshop manual it looks like I do have to take the camshafts off and camshaft oil seals... but I cant really tell if I need to remove timing belt etc....
I have undone all the bolts ON TOP of this Beam Camshaft Cap (20 around the outside and 3 running though the centre)... but its stuck fast... are there any other bolts on the sides or at the back I need to undo?... I cant see any.
I know this Beam Camshaft Cap has strong sealant.... is that what holding it tight? If so... how to I break the seal?
Remember, i am trying to effectively clean this without removing the camshaft or especially, no to muck around with the timing as thats where my expertise ends.
This is proving very difficult to do as home..... best i can do is pressure spray White spirits into the rocker area (if I cant remove this Beam Camshaft Cap).
I know exactly what you are experiencing. Do not loose hope. It is a nasty job. Just keep at it, a paint brush and plenty of fluid.
While sludge which is still soft it should be dissolved by the detergent dispersant additives in a good quality diesel engine oil but the hard carbon and varnish like deposits will not. The reason why it collected in the first place was that the oil detergent dispersant package became so overloaded that it allowed sludges to form. So I would say get as much of the sludge out as you can, reassemble it and then leave it to the new charge of oil to sort out.
We will have a beer and talk about it.
While sludge which is still soft it should be dissolved by the detergent dispersant additives in a good quality diesel engine oil but the hard carbon and varnish like deposits will not. The reason why it collected in the first place was that the oil detergent dispersant package became so overloaded that it allowed sludges to form. So I would say get as much of the sludge out as you can, reassemble it and then leave it to the new charge of oil to sort out.
We will have a beer and talk about it.
Thanks again...
Tacking as described over the next few days and I agree that I can get rid of most of the surge or loosen it al with patience then drain through the oil drain drain holes...
Beer very welcome... have fridges full of the stuff
Tacking as described over the next few days and I agree that I can get rid of most of the surge or loosen it al with patience then drain through the oil drain drain holes...
Beer very welcome... have fridges full of the stuff
I have now pretty much done a good job in cleaning the rocker area .... the oil drain holes are free as anything i put any liquid in the rockers it flows down to sump area nicely
As my car has the Beam Camshaft Caps I think i know where the small holes are to let oil in to the rockers.... have shoved small wires through as I can.
I have done my best under the car to clean out the area where the Oil Pressure switch goes... the oil filter.... the oil pick up in the sump area..... all looks great
However how do I know that oil will actually get to the rockers now?.... obviously I haven't stripped the whole engine but I want to be sure this is all ok before I put all I have taken off, back on again.
I have tried a convoluted high pressure (not that high) spray of petrol and Mineral Spirits up the oil pick up pipe.... ands also the pipe which the oil filter screws on.... to try and see if I can force the solvent through the system and out of the tiny oil holes coming in to the rockers.... nothing...!!
Tried the other way into the these same tiny holes from the rockers and cant tell if its going through.
I am not using a brilliant system and its trial and error but Im trying to see if liquid is getting passed the oil pump?
perhaps Im not using enough pressure?
Any ideas?
Thanks
As my car has the Beam Camshaft Caps I think i know where the small holes are to let oil in to the rockers.... have shoved small wires through as I can.
I have done my best under the car to clean out the area where the Oil Pressure switch goes... the oil filter.... the oil pick up in the sump area..... all looks great
However how do I know that oil will actually get to the rockers now?.... obviously I haven't stripped the whole engine but I want to be sure this is all ok before I put all I have taken off, back on again.
I have tried a convoluted high pressure (not that high) spray of petrol and Mineral Spirits up the oil pick up pipe.... ands also the pipe which the oil filter screws on.... to try and see if I can force the solvent through the system and out of the tiny oil holes coming in to the rockers.... nothing...!!
Tried the other way into the these same tiny holes from the rockers and cant tell if its going through.
I am not using a brilliant system and its trial and error but Im trying to see if liquid is getting passed the oil pump?
perhaps Im not using enough pressure?
Any ideas?
Thanks
Your question "how do you know that oil is getting to the critical areas? That is the very nervous delemma that every body faces when they rebuild an engine.
For you, where you are and what you possibly have at your disposal, I would recomend the following:
Once you have all the parts back so you can swing the engine safely, with the oil filter fitted and the sump filled with oil, remove the oil pressure switch and then swing the engine (if you can leave the spark plugs out even better). Within say 6 seconds (oil pump needs to fill the oil filter and oil galleries), you should have a thin strong squirt coming out of the pressure switch hole. The engine is so designed that the main bearings and big end bearings will get oil first. This is mainly why you dont see any oil at the cams. Once the oil appears at the pressure switch hole, fit the oil pressure switch and (if you can with the tappet covers off) spin the engine again. I can assure you that any soft sludge, that may be in the cam journals, that gets in the way of that oil under pressure, is going to get blasted away and eventually disolved and dispersed. As mentioned it was the hard sludge that was of biggest concern. The oil will be supplied to the cams via the oil ways in at least one journal. If you can spin the motor with the tappet covers off, you should see oil eventually oozing out at the journals. When you fill the engine with oil try and keep it dry / off the cams and journals, so that you will be able to see when the oil arrives at the cams / journals.
If the cam journals have holes facing upwards it is to catch oil fling and supply it to the cam journals. Pour a bit of oil along the cams before you close finally before start. Before you start do one final check. Good luck we are holding thumbs for you. I am pretty sure it will all go fine. When it is running a while check for leaks.
For you, where you are and what you possibly have at your disposal, I would recomend the following:
Once you have all the parts back so you can swing the engine safely, with the oil filter fitted and the sump filled with oil, remove the oil pressure switch and then swing the engine (if you can leave the spark plugs out even better). Within say 6 seconds (oil pump needs to fill the oil filter and oil galleries), you should have a thin strong squirt coming out of the pressure switch hole. The engine is so designed that the main bearings and big end bearings will get oil first. This is mainly why you dont see any oil at the cams. Once the oil appears at the pressure switch hole, fit the oil pressure switch and (if you can with the tappet covers off) spin the engine again. I can assure you that any soft sludge, that may be in the cam journals, that gets in the way of that oil under pressure, is going to get blasted away and eventually disolved and dispersed. As mentioned it was the hard sludge that was of biggest concern. The oil will be supplied to the cams via the oil ways in at least one journal. If you can spin the motor with the tappet covers off, you should see oil eventually oozing out at the journals. When you fill the engine with oil try and keep it dry / off the cams and journals, so that you will be able to see when the oil arrives at the cams / journals.
If the cam journals have holes facing upwards it is to catch oil fling and supply it to the cam journals. Pour a bit of oil along the cams before you close finally before start. Before you start do one final check. Good luck we are holding thumbs for you. I am pretty sure it will all go fine. When it is running a while check for leaks.
I still think what you are doing is most probably going to end in tears.
(There certainly is a possibility that your Heath Robinson "re-build" will work, but is it worth the risk?)
- Take that engine out,
- strip it,
- have it cleaned,
- machine what is worn,
- get the right parts,
- put it together,
- drive it for another 300000kms.
(There certainly is a possibility that your Heath Robinson "re-build" will work, but is it worth the risk?)
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me