Interpreting Allan Black test results
Hi,

Can anyone assist me with interpreting some dyno results from Allan Black?

I've attached the test results below.

Speaking to them (Allan Black) they say that the diesel pump is under-powered and they will need to look at the pump and injectors. However, speaking to the dealer who I bought the car from they say the results are "fine".

Problem is, the car is already en route to Cape Town, which complicates things a bit. All rather irritating after asking the dealer to have the diesel pump and injectors checked at Allan Black, but then not getting them to do that :evil:

The car is a 3.2 did, 2003 model with 165, 000 km on the clock.

Thanks in advance.
Attachments:
Allan Black test results.tif
Allan Black test results.tif (33.26 KiB) Viewed 2684 times
Pajero 3.2 DID LWB GLX
Pajero 3.2 DiD SWB [SOLD]
Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
I'm not sure you can open the previous test results - hopefully this one will work...
Attachments:
Allan Black test results.jpg
Pajero 3.2 DID LWB GLX
Pajero 3.2 DiD SWB [SOLD]
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Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
Thanks - and please excuse my ignorance - but are you agreeing that the test results are out of spec and underpowered?
Pajero 3.2 DID LWB GLX
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Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
dwinter wrote:I'm not sure you can open the previous test results - hopefully this one will work...
If I compare those results to that of my old colt 2.8 (ignoring absolute figures) I would have expected the torque curve (and to a lesser extent the power) to be a little flatter, and to peak a little lower.

4e, those specs will be at the flywheel, while these are probably at the wheels, so you can add about 30% for losses. But still I would say this thing is quite low on oomph
Simon Bloomer
Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
Thanks Simon,

I assume that because "this thing is quite low on oomph" I should be concerned, right?

The chap at Allan Black said they would need to open up the diesel pump and also check out the injectors - if this isn't done is there any significant risk of damage, or will it just be a "pap" car...

I have not taken delivery of the car yet so I'm going to push the dealer to get this sorted out.

Would you accept a car in this "state" ?
Pajero 3.2 DID LWB GLX
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Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
Apologies for dragging this out....Here is the response from the dealer: Would you buy this story based on the test results?

"Hannes our General manager for service and workshops confirmed with me that the test results is within spec. If you look at the bottom of the page you will see that the test was conducted on the wheels and that is the values obtained. He phoned Bradley and he also confirmed with Hannes that the results achieved is within spec. I cannot understand why Bradley gave you a different answer , only he will no that. Hope this clarifies your concern , like I said , wait for the car to arrive down there , drive it , I am sure all the uncertainties will go away!!!!!!!!!!! That Pajero you bought is in good condition , you can take my word for it."
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Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
Have you heard the old story about lies, damned lies and dyno results ;) . Seriously, chassis dynamometer results are notoriously difficult to interpret in an absolute fashion, because they are subject to many tuning parameters and are sensitive to operator technique. The basic problem is that the manufacturer rates the power and torque of the engine alone (measured at the flywheel), while the chassis dynamometer measures the engine power and torque as installed in a vehicle, driving the transmission, transfer box, final drives and wheels. Various techniques and assumptions are used to attempt to back-calculate the flywheel power and torque from the figures measured at the wheels.

The engine rating will have been determined by the manufacturer according to some or other engine rating standard and will be applicable to a certain set of ambient conditions (temperature and pressure), while the chassis dynamometer test is carried out at whatever ambient conditions exist on the day of the test. More calculations are then done to try to work back to what the engine rating would have been under the standard conditions (if known).

Taking all of this into consideration, the most appropriate use of a chassis dynamometer is to do comparative work, i.e. before and after runs (hopefully under the same ambient conditions) to determine whether some or other engine repair or modification has improved matters or not.

One should also bear in mind that there could quite easily be a power/torque output difference of 10% between two brand new engines, straight from the assembly plant, due to the different ways that manufacturing tolerances stack up.

Having said all that, let's assume that the chassis dynamometer results that you posted are believable. Now the rating of the 4M41 motor (3.2 DiD) is said to be 121kW at 3800 rpm and 373 Nm at 2000 rpm. I am not sure against which standard this rating was determined, but let's assume that is a nett, engine dynamometer rating (i.e. the engine should deliver this rated power when powering all necessary ancillaries (water pump, cooling fan, etc.) and while equipped with an intake and exhaust system representative of those in the Gen 3 Pajero.

The combined drivetrain losses (e.g. losses in the transmission, transfer box, differentials, propshafts, at tyre-wheel interface) in a four wheel drive vehicle can easily be around 25%. Let's assume this is the case for the Pajero. This would seem to indicate that the maximum power available at the wheels should be just under 91 kW and the maximum torque should be just below 280 Nm, both still at the same engine speeds as before.

Let's look at it on a graph. I have plotted the rated torque curve, estimated chassis dynamometer torque curve (given assumed losses) and actual measured torque curve together:
DiD Torque Curves
DiD Torque Curves
The torque curve does not seem as flat as it should be. It seems dead at low rpm and then peaks at an engine speed higher than it should. The torque drops off rapidly from this peak. In addition to the many issues discussed above, the differences may also be due to things like:
* dirty air filter element
* restriction in air intake (perhaps something like a sponge sealing strip that has been ingested)
* injector pump settings
* condition of injectors
* throttle pedal position sensor


I have done a similar thing for the power power curves:
DiD Power Curves
DiD Power Curves
On this graph the fact that the engine "runs out of breath" at higher speeds is quite clearly demonstrated. The fact that the power curve does not have the same smooth shape as the rated power curve could indicate that all is not as it should be (see comments above).

Also bear in mind that two of the cylinders might be low on compression (based on the compression test that was done, but also bearing in mind that it was a cold test and not a test at operating temperature,as specified by Mitsu).

I don't know if this helps. Perhaps it would be even more reliable to get some Gen 3 DiD owners close to the vehicle to drive it and comment? I would be careful to accept the vehicle until I am satisfied that all is well. There are plenty of fish in the sea?
Gerrit Loubser Image

2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD

2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed :-(

1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed :-(

1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
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Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
dwinter wrote: Would you accept a car in this "state" ?
To put it mildy, I wouldn't. Gerrit has given a rather eloquent description of what your engine paower and torque curves might look like under ideal circumstances. This motor is out of kilter.
Simon Bloomer
Re: Interpreting Allan Black test results
Gerrit, thank you for your very comprehensive response!

The dealer is fetching the vehicle from the courier company and returning it to Allan Black for more testing and diagnosis.

Let's hope they get to the bottom of it otherwise, as you said, I need to do some more fishing!
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