Pajero Owners Club of South Africa

4ePikanini wrote:
yes in sand it's better to have the TC off as you need some spin from the wheels (or perfect TC) but in most scenarios TC works great!

Hello Marius

Please explain this statement of yours? Why would one need some spin in sand? With TC on, the wheels still spin until TC controlled braking is applied for transferring of grip (torque) to other wheels, right?

Tx

Hi all

I find this thread very interesting, and have not been ale to view the video, but I have had tough times in mud with my TC-enabled auto 3.2Did.

From my experiences, I feel that TC generally works very well on sand, gravel and rock, but not in mud, steady right foot or not.

What are your experiences in mud with TC?

Charles

Chris2 wrote:

4ePikanini wrote:
yes in sand it's better to have the TC off as you need some spin from the wheels (or perfect TC) but in most scenarios TC works great!

Hello Marius

Please explain this statement of yours? Why would one need some spin in sand? With TC on, the wheels still spin until TC controlled braking is applied for transferring of grip (torque) to other wheels, right?

Tx

I haven't driven sand so can only share other testimonies I have read.

I think it comes down that if TC is used on sand it stops momentum and engine revs (taking you out of power band) which is the 2 crucial things you need on dunes.

I think Zantus should be the critical commentator on TC in sand!

4ePikanini wrote:

Chris2 wrote:

4ePikanini wrote:
yes in sand it's better to have the TC off as you need some spin from the wheels (or perfect TC) but in most scenarios TC works great!

Hello Marius

Please explain this statement of yours? Why would one need some spin in sand? With TC on, the wheels still spin until TC controlled braking is applied for transferring of grip (torque) to other wheels, right?

Tx

I haven't driven sand so can only share other testimonies I have read.

I think it comes down that if TC is used on sand it stops momentum and engine revs (taking you out of power band) which is the 2 crucial things you need on dunes.

I think Zantus should be the critical commentator on TC in sand!

Marius
I have been driving Atlantis dunes now for a couple of years and I have never had the need to disengage TC.
I have used normal 4H as well as 4HLc and 4LLc on dunes depending on what is required on the day or the specific challenge.

The only thing that gets "switched off" (automatically), is Active Stability Control (SC) - this happens when one changes to 4LLc. Brake control of active TC control system is still working to prevent wheel spin when SC is either switched off manually or is disengaged automatically by selecting 4LLc.

But then again, I am no expert when it comes to sand driving with or without TC. Hopefully I can learn something new re sand driving with my Paj!

I don't know the Pajero's TC system, but when my dad tried driving his Merc ML over dunes with TC switched on he got stuck halfway up everytime, but turned off had no problem. So i suppose it could have an effect.

This is how I understand TC:

On sand (or similar surfaces) going uphill, all the wheels will at a point start spinning i.e. lose traction. TC will act by trying to divert power to the wheel with most grip as always (by braking the other wheels), but remember, all wheels have lost traction, so power to the engine is cut, which results in loss of momentum.

The TC is in some ways similar to road vehicles' Stability Control. My cousin had a Merc Vito bus (2x4) and got stuck often when the SC kicked in on sandy roads. SC thinks the spinning wheel is detrimetal to safety and cuts the engine power, resulting in loss of momentum until standstill.

My Pajero does not have traction control (1989).

My Touareg has (amongst other)

• Traction Control (EDL) and
• Stability Control (ESP)

This is what VW says about the two:

Stability Control

ESP
ESP automatically provides the driver with an enhanced ability to
maintain control of the vehicle, but it should be deactivated when
driving on loose sand or gravel. ESP uses ASR which reduces engine
power when wheel slip is detected. This makes the vehicle slow down
and causes more difficulty getting out of the loose sand or gravel.

Traction Control:

Electronic Differential Lock (EDL)
The Touareg has four-wheel EDL. Using four-wheel EDL, a freespinning
wheel is slowed by brake application, transferring torque to a
wheel with traction.

The two should not be confused. The one cuts power to the engine, the other brakes a spinning wheel.

I do now know how the Mitsu systems works, but I would imagine that they are similar to the VW ones.

AltenWahl wrote:I don't know the Pajero's TC system, but when my dad tried driving his Merc ML over dunes with TC switched on he got stuck halfway up everytime, but turned off had no problem.

I don't know the ML's system that well, but I would bet that the traction control can not be turned off. The bit that can be turned off is actually the vehicle stability control system, which has the ability to cut engine power and also activates the brakes in a manner to attempt to reduce sliding. Both these features are undesireable in a dune climb.

JonnyD wrote:This is how I understand TC:

On sand (or similar surfaces) going uphill, all the wheels will at a point start spinning i.e. lose traction. TC will act by trying to divert power to the wheel with most grip as always (by braking the other wheels), but remember, all wheels have lost traction, so power to the engine is cut, which results in loss of momentum.

Most traction control systems, including the Mitsubishi system fitted to the Pajero, does not have the ability to reduce engine power; only the stability control system does that, just like 4ePajero explained in the case of the Treg.

Thanks Gerrit, learnt something again.