Ek was die afgelope naweek by die Vryburgers se 4 x 4 dag. Daar was 7 plekke waar jy die duin moes uitgaan en dan het jy punte gekry by elke plek. Die plekke is deur verskillrnde sake-ondernemings geborg.
By elkeen van die plekke moes jy feitlik teen die stilhou en dan daar van daar wegtrek. Vir voertuie met 'n koppelaar was dit makliker, jy kon die rewolusies opjaag en dan die koppelaar los. Ek het die 3.2 GLS met die tik ratkas. Ek het telkens probeer in 4LCL en in 2 de rat, maar het baie min geslaag om die duin uit tekom. Iemand noem toe ek moet die rem inhou, die enjin opjaag en dan die rem los, maar mors die kar in so 'n geval op.
Ek wil graag weet: Kan 'n mens dit doen en of dit nadelig is vir die voertuig?
Willem, sorry for answering in the Queen's tongue, but that is for our foreign members' sake (locals should learn to speak Afrikaans!).
Maybe I'm dof (again), but this is what i think.
In real life, one would not stop on a dune face by choice. If you are forced to stop due to the conditions (slope, soft sand, etc), or choosing the wrong gear, the standard method is to reverse under controlled conditions and then try again.
If you can stop and pull away again, why would you have stopped in the first place? Especially in an auto, which would have selected another gear if the engine was running out of steam.
What I am getting at is that I have a problem with obstacles which
(PS Some dragsters use auto boxes, which are rammed into gear at max rpm. They re-build those very often, though!
)
Maybe I'm dof (again), but this is what i think.
In real life, one would not stop on a dune face by choice. If you are forced to stop due to the conditions (slope, soft sand, etc), or choosing the wrong gear, the standard method is to reverse under controlled conditions and then try again.
If you can stop and pull away again, why would you have stopped in the first place? Especially in an auto, which would have selected another gear if the engine was running out of steam.
What I am getting at is that I have a problem with obstacles which
- do not imitate real life situations
- puts unneccessary strain on the competing vehicle
- risks either damage or roll-overs
(PS Some dragsters use auto boxes, which are rammed into gear at max rpm. They re-build those very often, though!
)Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Site Admin
Kai is probably best placed to answer this as (I believe) he has an auto and participates in a some events, and has extensive experience in sand.
Simon Bloomer
I will put it in English.
The situation was to obtain pionts for the dune, you have to stop on the slope next to a marker and start from there. The dunes were steep and the sand loose. I agree, in real life situations you will make sure that you have enough momentum. I did'nt try the advice given to me, ( hold your foot on the brake or use the handbrake, rev the engine and let go) because I feld it could damage the car.
The situation was to obtain pionts for the dune, you have to stop on the slope next to a marker and start from there. The dunes were steep and the sand loose. I agree, in real life situations you will make sure that you have enough momentum. I did'nt try the advice given to me, ( hold your foot on the brake or use the handbrake, rev the engine and let go) because I feld it could damage the car.
Site Admin
Not wanting to get into the merits / demerits of points events.. I do them occasionallyVaalwillem wrote:The situation was to obtain pionts for the dune, you have to stop on the slope next to a marker and start from there. The dunes were steep and the sand loose. I agree, in real life situations you will make sure that you have enough momentum. I did'nt try the advice given to me, ( hold your foot on the brake or use the handbrake, rev the engine and let go) because I feld it could damage the car.
I'm no mechanic or an engineer, but I can't see the difference in revving a manual and then popping the clutch, and revving an auto and letting go of the brakes. The auto still has a clutch of sorts which has to engage to get the engine to link up with the gearbox.
Simon Bloomer
The problem lies within the torque converter.SimonB wrote: I'm no mechanic or an engineer, but I can't see the difference in revving a manual and then popping the clutch, and revving an auto and letting go of the brakes. The auto still has a clutch of sorts which has to engage to get the engine to link up with the gearbox.
The moment a "D" gear is selected, the torque converter is activated. You can brake the wheels enough to force the torque converter to slip.
The energy that would have been used to propel the vehicle is now converted into heat and the torque converter will over heat if done to often or to long.
Quick and few will most probably be OK.
Last edited by 4ePajero on Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Reason: Fixed quote
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Site Admin
Ok then, look at it a different way... (i'm just trying to gain some understanding, not belabouring any point) but what happens if one is stuck in traffic not moving much. Now unless you engage neutral on a regular basis, does the same thing not happen to the torque converter then?4ePajero wrote: The problem lies within the torque converter.
The moment a "D" gear is selected, the torque converter is activated. You can brake the wheels enough to force the torque converter to slip.
The energy that would have been used to propel the vehicle is now converted into heat and the torque converter will over heat if done to often or to long.
Quick and few will most probably be OK.
Simon Bloomer
Quite correct.SimonB wrote: Ok then, look at it a different way... (i'm just trying to gain some understanding, not belabouring any point) but what happens if one is stuck in traffic not moving much. Now unless you engage neutral on a regular basis, does the same thing not happen to the torque converter then?
At idling speed, the pump (torque converter) is not very efficient, and very little energy is transferred.
(some torque converters are efficient enough at idling speed to cause "creep" - the vehicle moves forward at idling speed).
The problem comes when the revs increase, the 'pump' works real hard, but without the opportunity to move the vehicle.
(A centrifugal water pump can be "choked" by closing it's outlet. It will labour and over heat as well).
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Thanks to all you guys. I am sure I did the correct thing not to follow the advice given to me by a marshall or two. Now I understand the working of the Pajero beter. I bought the Pajero for pleassant driving and to get to places where my 2.5 Isuzu is unable to go, not to compete on the slope of a dune against a Toyota with a 3.5 Chev engine and some bakkies where the owner does'nt feel much for the vehicle. I am glad I did it, it's the only way one can learn your car.
Willem,
The nature of any competition is to create conditions where most cannot make the obstacle and thus see who gets the closest to the target and award points. Doesn't matter if it is racing up a dune or spitting at a bowl. I'm pretty sure that a once off brake, accelerate and GO attempt wouldn't break your torque converter, so it would be nice to find out if it does help to get going. Something like an aircraft at the start of the runway. I know that the CAR magazine road testers used to (I haven't read a CAR road test in many a year, so do not know if they still do that) apply that teqnique on their acceleration runs with auto box cars. I remember that the Nissan Maxima refused to be subjected to that treatment, the engine would reduce it's own power.
The beauty of a torque converter is the "soft" way in which it applies the power to the wheels and thus the best way to get going in thick sand or mud. So, although you didn't do too well in the competition, I still believe the auto box is the better option for comfortable off-road driving.
Roelf
The nature of any competition is to create conditions where most cannot make the obstacle and thus see who gets the closest to the target and award points. Doesn't matter if it is racing up a dune or spitting at a bowl. I'm pretty sure that a once off brake, accelerate and GO attempt wouldn't break your torque converter, so it would be nice to find out if it does help to get going. Something like an aircraft at the start of the runway. I know that the CAR magazine road testers used to (I haven't read a CAR road test in many a year, so do not know if they still do that) apply that teqnique on their acceleration runs with auto box cars. I remember that the Nissan Maxima refused to be subjected to that treatment, the engine would reduce it's own power.
The beauty of a torque converter is the "soft" way in which it applies the power to the wheels and thus the best way to get going in thick sand or mud. So, although you didn't do too well in the competition, I still believe the auto box is the better option for comfortable off-road driving.
Roelf