Hi Simon,
My Gen 3 Auto 2005 3.2 DiD SWB does not have Diff Lock but has Traction Control. What are the key attributes of traction control in heavy sand. I understand that when driving in hot loose sand, "TC" is better switched off? What are the options of adding a diff lock in the rear diff. Ithink once you are familiar with using one it is hard to break the habit. It sometimes saves going into low range.
Greypaj
Paj-Gen 3 Auto 2005 3.2 DiD SWB
Greypaj, have a look at these past threads. Parhaps you will find the info you need:
https://www.pajeroclub.co.za/forum/view ... =210&p=928
https://www.pajeroclub.co.za/forum/view ... f=27&t=352
If you have more questions, please fire
.
https://www.pajeroclub.co.za/forum/view ... =210&p=928
https://www.pajeroclub.co.za/forum/view ... f=27&t=352
If you have more questions, please fire
.Gerrit Loubser 
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
Thank You Gerrit, for your input. I have read the threads in detail and now understand the issues around stability and traction. The challenge is when each action is appropriate for the conditions we are driving under. My vehicle’s instruction book (when all else fails) refers to Active Stability and Traction Control as one element or one switch. It refers to the fact that even though the ASTC switch is off the “brake control of the active traction control function is still working to prevent wheel spins” This also applies when in 4LLc. That is probably why it was suggested in one of the threads to unplug the wiring etc as explained when in heavy sand etc.
May be you or any other Paj Generation 3 owner can advise me.
1. Can an “Air Locker” or any effective diff lock be fitted to the Rear Diff?
2. Can one put a separate switch in line in the cab that can function as an isolator switch or on/off switch to give you the same outcome as pulling the plug? This is not a difficult challenge.
3. Herewith an adventurous thought. Can one have traction control only going to the front wheels with a diff lock arrangement at the back wheels by doing some extreme rewiring and adding a diff lock? This could be an effective solution to all the pro’s and con’s as long as it does not impact on ABS. The wiring could be done in such a way that it only gets switched to this arrangement when you apply the diff lock otherwise everything remains as designed. These suggestions are for instances when challenges in terrain are not resolved with high range solutions.
Greypaj
Pajero -Gen 3 Auto 2005 3.2 DiD SWB
May be you or any other Paj Generation 3 owner can advise me.
1. Can an “Air Locker” or any effective diff lock be fitted to the Rear Diff?
2. Can one put a separate switch in line in the cab that can function as an isolator switch or on/off switch to give you the same outcome as pulling the plug? This is not a difficult challenge.
3. Herewith an adventurous thought. Can one have traction control only going to the front wheels with a diff lock arrangement at the back wheels by doing some extreme rewiring and adding a diff lock? This could be an effective solution to all the pro’s and con’s as long as it does not impact on ABS. The wiring could be done in such a way that it only gets switched to this arrangement when you apply the diff lock otherwise everything remains as designed. These suggestions are for instances when challenges in terrain are not resolved with high range solutions.
Greypaj
Pajero -Gen 3 Auto 2005 3.2 DiD SWB
Just to labour the point slightly: The ASTC system is a single system, but does have the elements of vehicle stability control and traction control. The traction control system is always active and can not be turned off by the driver using a switch (at least not in the standard vehicle). The vehicle stability control system can be disabled at the touch of a switch. The ASTC system relies on the ABS system, so any action that disables the ABS system would also disable the whole of the ASTC system.
In terms of air lockers there are some options, but they are not cheap :
1) ARB makes air lockers that fit both the front (ARB part number RD110) and rear (ARB part number RD155) differentials of the Gen 3. This would obviously require the installation of an air compressor and the related wiring. The advantage of this set-up is that the vehicle stability control will still function exactly as intended provided the differentials are not locked. The disadvantage is that you are moving away from Mitsubishi bits and the durability/reliability of the ARB bits might not be quite as good.
2) You could track down a locking rear differential (and related hardware) out of a Gen 3 GLX or an older Gen 3 GLS (one like mine, without ASTC, but with a rear diff lock) at a breakers yard and retrofit to your vehicle. Apart from the differential itself, you would need the little air compressor that actuates it. You might be able to get the loom and switch (and possibly the difflock ECU) and have a plug-and-play system or you could simply devise your own system to actuate the compressor and lock the diff. This set-up has the advantage that your vehicle remains all Mitsubishi. It might also be cheaper than the ARB route. The disadvantage is that the Mitsu locking rear diff is actually a Torsen LSD when unlocked. It is unknown what the effect on vehicle dynamics might be in a situation where the vehicle stability control attempts to brake only one of the two rear wheels and the Torsen LSD then transfers a portion of this brake torque to the other wheel (My opinion is that it is probably not super risky, but I might be dead wrong).
Whatever locking differentials are fitted, I doubt that there would be any problems with the traction control side of the ASTC system; the wheel speed sensors would simply never register a speed difference between the wheels on the axle with the locked diff and the system would focus its attention elsewhere. If only the rear diff is locked, the traction control system would be able to keep going much longer limiting spin-out at the front wheels, all the while still allowing better steering control than with a locked front diff. This would seem like a super set-up and is actually exacatly what is available in the Disco 3.
I recon it would be possible to wire a switch in line with the ABS fuse to allow the entire ABS/ASTC system to be turned on and off at will (One has to take note of the current requirements of such a switch). Another option might be a switch in one of the wheel speed sensor lines. Of course one has to think long and hard about the desireability of messing around with safety critical vehicle systems. One should also bear in mind that it would be quite possible to forget about the fact that the ABS system is disabled and drive home from playing on a trail with no ABS; One would have ignored the orange ABS warning lamp for the duration of the trail, so this might no longer serve as a suitable reminder.
In terms of air lockers there are some options, but they are not cheap
:1) ARB makes air lockers that fit both the front (ARB part number RD110) and rear (ARB part number RD155) differentials of the Gen 3. This would obviously require the installation of an air compressor and the related wiring. The advantage of this set-up is that the vehicle stability control will still function exactly as intended provided the differentials are not locked. The disadvantage is that you are moving away from Mitsubishi bits and the durability/reliability of the ARB bits might not be quite as good.
2) You could track down a locking rear differential (and related hardware) out of a Gen 3 GLX or an older Gen 3 GLS (one like mine, without ASTC, but with a rear diff lock) at a breakers yard and retrofit to your vehicle. Apart from the differential itself, you would need the little air compressor that actuates it. You might be able to get the loom and switch (and possibly the difflock ECU) and have a plug-and-play system or you could simply devise your own system to actuate the compressor and lock the diff. This set-up has the advantage that your vehicle remains all Mitsubishi. It might also be cheaper than the ARB route. The disadvantage is that the Mitsu locking rear diff is actually a Torsen LSD when unlocked. It is unknown what the effect on vehicle dynamics might be in a situation where the vehicle stability control attempts to brake only one of the two rear wheels and the Torsen LSD then transfers a portion of this brake torque to the other wheel (My opinion is that it is probably not super risky, but I might be dead wrong).
Whatever locking differentials are fitted, I doubt that there would be any problems with the traction control side of the ASTC system; the wheel speed sensors would simply never register a speed difference between the wheels on the axle with the locked diff and the system would focus its attention elsewhere. If only the rear diff is locked, the traction control system would be able to keep going much longer limiting spin-out at the front wheels, all the while still allowing better steering control than with a locked front diff. This would seem like a super set-up and is actually exacatly what is available in the Disco 3.
I recon it would be possible to wire a switch in line with the ABS fuse to allow the entire ABS/ASTC system to be turned on and off at will (One has to take note of the current requirements of such a switch). Another option might be a switch in one of the wheel speed sensor lines. Of course one has to think long and hard about the desireability of messing around with safety critical vehicle systems. One should also bear in mind that it would be quite possible to forget about the fact that the ABS system is disabled and drive home from playing on a trail with no ABS; One would have ignored the orange ABS warning lamp for the duration of the trail, so this might no longer serve as a suitable reminder.
Gerrit Loubser
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
Thanks for input Gerrit. I will investigat obtaing the Mitshi rear diff at a breakers yard together with wiring etc.
Greypaj
Greypaj
That would be great. I am not aware of anyone that has done this yet (I would have tried it if I ended up buying a Gen 3 with traction control, but in the end I found one of the last GLSs with a rear diff lock), so you might be a pioneer in terms of learning about the behaviour of the vehicle stability control and the rear Torsen diff. Keep us posted.
Have a look at this thread. It might be of value:
http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/sho ... .php?t=426
Have a look at this thread. It might be of value:
http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/sho ... .php?t=426
Gerrit Loubser
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
Gerrit herewith quote from 4x4 Megaworld. I think, on reflection the Torsen limited slip diff option has me considering the risks if Traction control was not switched off and I dont know if I want to go that route.
SPOKE TO OUR TECHNICLE GUY
ARB R155 REAR DIFF - ARRIVING END JUNE
PRICE
LOCKER :R13315.00-10%11983.50
COMPRESSOR:R2795.00-10%2515.50
PUMP UP KIT TO PUMP TYRESR499.00-10%449.10
LABOUR R1500.00
TOTAL FITTED:R16448.10
The big decision now is Do I spend money on a diff lock or upgrade the suspension system, but I will leave that decision for another day
Thanks for your input, I am a wiser Paj driver from it.
Greypaj
SPOKE TO OUR TECHNICLE GUY
ARB R155 REAR DIFF - ARRIVING END JUNE
PRICE
LOCKER :R13315.00-10%11983.50
COMPRESSOR:R2795.00-10%2515.50
PUMP UP KIT TO PUMP TYRESR499.00-10%449.10
LABOUR R1500.00
TOTAL FITTED:R16448.10
The big decision now is Do I spend money on a diff lock or upgrade the suspension system, but I will leave that decision for another day
Thanks for your input, I am a wiser Paj driver from it.
Greypaj
Michael, that quote makes interesting reading...
Anyway, just to get back to the vehicle stability control (VSC) and Torsen diff thing. I doubt that it would create a disaster, but it might reduce the efficiency of the VSC somewhat. One of the techniques that the VSC uses to stabilise the vehicle is to apply the brakes to individual wheels as appropriate. If oversteer is detected in a left hand corner, for instance, the brakes might be applied on the right hand rear wheel only, to assist in rotating the vehicle back into line. Now the Torsen diff will transfer a fraction of that torque to the other wheel, where it will paratially negate the correcting moment that the VSC wishes to generate. I can't see it doing something really weird and sending the vehicle out of control. I think the VSC will merely be less effective at enhancing vehicle stability.
In terms of the electronic traction control function (ETC), there will be no issues. When the rear diff is locked, the ETC won't see the need to apply any brakes on the rear axle and will focus its attention to the front. If the rear diff is unlocked (i.e. Torsen LSD mode) then the ETC will effectively have some help, but will still apply the rear brakes as required to attempt to force the rear wheels to rotate at the same speed.
Anyway, just to get back to the vehicle stability control (VSC) and Torsen diff thing. I doubt that it would create a disaster, but it might reduce the efficiency of the VSC somewhat. One of the techniques that the VSC uses to stabilise the vehicle is to apply the brakes to individual wheels as appropriate. If oversteer is detected in a left hand corner, for instance, the brakes might be applied on the right hand rear wheel only, to assist in rotating the vehicle back into line. Now the Torsen diff will transfer a fraction of that torque to the other wheel, where it will paratially negate the correcting moment that the VSC wishes to generate. I can't see it doing something really weird and sending the vehicle out of control. I think the VSC will merely be less effective at enhancing vehicle stability.
In terms of the electronic traction control function (ETC), there will be no issues. When the rear diff is locked, the ETC won't see the need to apply any brakes on the rear axle and will focus its attention to the front. If the rear diff is unlocked (i.e. Torsen LSD mode) then the ETC will effectively have some help, but will still apply the rear brakes as required to attempt to force the rear wheels to rotate at the same speed.
Gerrit Loubser
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
I picked this up from the web. Promotional piece when the Gen4 was launched.
It basically confirms what Gerrit is saying. The Gen3 system will cope with a locked diff, but the effectiveness will in all probability be reduced. In the corporate motoring world, that would be seen as a safety issue. So the Gen4 is adapted to maintain it's effectiveness.- The ASTC system is now capable of detecting the operating status of the rear differential lock. This allows both systems to be installed at the same time and thereby extend Pajero's off-road capabilities further still.
I am able to get hold of rear lockable diff, has any one gone into this a little further??
All in all to fit the compressor and everything to get the rear diff lock to work will cost me only time as I can get everything for muhala.
I am just afraid of the control systems conflicting, cause the traction control is great, it just needs that little extra in certain conditions.
What scares me is some oak told me that the mitsu's also scenes what speeds the wheels turn at and reeds this into what angle the steering wheel finds itself. thus this would be a problem if I'm turning and the rear diff is locked and the wheels are at the same speed.
Would this effect it so negatively that the TC would be useless at the back(no matter) and the front???
All in all to fit the compressor and everything to get the rear diff lock to work will cost me only time as I can get everything for muhala.
I am just afraid of the control systems conflicting, cause the traction control is great, it just needs that little extra in certain conditions.
What scares me is some oak told me that the mitsu's also scenes what speeds the wheels turn at and reeds this into what angle the steering wheel finds itself. thus this would be a problem if I'm turning and the rear diff is locked and the wheels are at the same speed.
Would this effect it so negatively that the TC would be useless at the back(no matter) and the front???