[gerald randall]

I sent Simon a private message on 4x4 community, so he already has this detail, but I want to know from people who are more experienced than me if this is normal.


I was referred to a mechanic in Bellville to do a 100,000km service on my Pajero Gen3. Must give some background, the vehicle is an early Gen3 and about 16 months ago, during a trip to Namibia, a water pipe burst, kept driving as nothing to fix it with. Engine overheated. The cooling system, including radiator was replaced. The engine was replaced with one which had 70,000km on. Not a busy year and since, I added 25,000km. So the engine is on 95,000km.

I'm a bit cautious as I want to take a trip to Namibia and also one to Limpopo to hunt (from Cape Town). I took it in for its 100,000km service and although at this point only some things need to be checked, I asked that extra was done. Wanted all the diff oil replaced, the vehicle thoroughly lubricated and also a service on the gearbox and transfer box.

The result is this:
The mechanic wants to replace the plugs with platinum plugs which last 100,000km. Not sure if this is necessary.
Replace the brake discs (all), with all the brake pads replaced, with the handbrake shoes. Seems to make sense.
Needs tapet cover gasket (makes sense, but leak is minor)
O-ring replaced (at crank shaft, so makes sense, but leak is also minor).
Replaced some clips at brakes. Makes sense.
Cam Belt is replaced at 100,000km, so makes sense.
Now I seem to start wondering:
Replace ALL the belts - is this necessary?
Wants to replace the ALL pulleys for the new belts - is this necessary?
Wants to replace the water pump. His thinking is that it has done 100,000km, it is easily replaced as all the belts and pulleys are off. Pump not giving problems, but he feels it looks old (95,000km) and could possibly give problems if I go into extreme areas (difficult one for me to grasp, but as he has taken all the belts off, it is easy to replace). Does this make sense to any of you?
He also replaced the thermostat, as he tested it against a new thermostat and it did not perfomorm as well as the new one. Thermostat has never given any problems. Makes no sense to me.

This afternoon phones me after it has been there since last Monday (10 days) that he noticed the radiator has a crack. As far as I know the radiator was replaced about 16 months ago.

So I am confused. Not being a mechanic it all seems a bit over the top to have all this needing to be replaced at 95,000km. The wear and tear I get, but replacing the thermostat, radiator and water pump seems a bit much.

On top of that he tells me my battery is shot, that he did remove it while working on the vehicle and now it does not want to work. Reality is that when I was at his workshop last week to check on the vehicle, the battery was in the vehicle and connected. Ran down and is now shot.

He still cannot tell me exactly what this is all going to cost. I still do not have my vehicle and hope to get it back on Tuesday (2 weeks later).

You are far more experienced than me, maybe you can tell me if any of this makes sense to you.

Kind regards

Gerald

[nino62]

Hi Gerald

I've spent more than >100K in 2010 till present point in time, only on maintenance and upgrades for my 2x pajero's, and one of the basic mistakes I did, was not asking for quotes / spares pricing beforehand.

If this "boffin" knows / suggests, what exact items / parts you are needing (recommended by him), he can VERY well work out a pricing for parts......including his labour, as there are "flat rate manuals" that these mechanics are supposed to use (even as guidelines).
I must say, that seeing as you seem to indicate that your 4x4 is nearing "THE" major 100 000km service interval......it doesn't pay to skimp on a mere radiator hose or thermostat (that by the way - I've just purchased from the Agents for my 3.5 V6, at a very reasonable price & visually, of a seemingly better quality than "alternative spares").

It is "a good idea - in my humble opinion (having been a motor franchise workshop manager + parts manager for more than 11 years), that it does make GOOD sense to change a water pump, after having a) covered a high mileage, & b) whilst they are changing cambelts, it just makes SOUND and GOOD preventative precaution, as well as "hopefully" reducing your labour charge (which you must query), as far as an additional labour charge, to replace. YOU DO HAVE A BAD "COOLING SYSTEM" PAST EXPERIENCE NOW UNDER YOUR BELT......".peace of mind" comes out trumps, when in the "outback".........in my point of view

Oh yes, it does seem that the plugs fitted to the V6 motors, is of a "100 000 km" duration type (including the recommended cambelts duration interval, as well as the pulleys & tensioners)........hence, if maybe someone else in the club can confirm, if they are of the "PLATINUM" type

I'm sure my "learned" Pajero fundi's on the forum, can expand & make clearer (having had more experience and time as owners themselves), any and all questions & queries that you have presented on the forum.

Best of luck.
Achille

[gerald randall]

Thanks Achille

I have checked out the high milage club posts also and it would seem that much of the work that has been done is rather common. I appreciate your input as everyone has different experiences and I want to know what to expect. I must say that I was told this mechanic is a perfectioninst and on his own vehicles he is absolutely over the top by having nothing on it that is not in top shape. So I am sure I will be satisfied with his work, I just do not like surprises and I am sure to get one when I collect the vehicle. But with the long trips I want to take, probabaly worth taking the precuations.

Rgds
Gerald

[tonton]

Gerald,

Keep the old water pipes - you may just need one of them for an emergency on an overland trip.

Anton

[Ned Kelly]

Hello, Gerald,

Just a POV from Down Under - if you have an interference engine like the 6G75, I'm afraid that you have to grin and bear the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of a Mitsu.

I fronted up for the "replace the lot" service at the end of 2010, first 100k, at a cost of $2,200 AUD. If you did an absolutely minimal toothed-belt replacement, it would cost you $1,200 AUD, Look, you may as well replace the water pump, plugs, thermostat, and ALL hoses (9 or 10 of the bastards!), plat plugs (which are optional, but will last you to 200K Km...).

The rationale is simple - an issue with the peripherals (e.g. the water pump) will mean a similar top-end pull-down at huge expense, in order to replace a $200 AUD item. If you do it all (and budget for) the each 100K service, then you can confidently throw your vehicle into extreme environments for the coupe of years in between.

I'm enjoying my Gen3 3.8 V6 until its 200k service. After that, as an old recreational vehicle, I will no doubt be a bit more circumspect about the major service cost..... and I will probably extend the "major" service to 300K or so.....

I think that you should take the advice of your mechanic, as I would be extremely doubtful of one who did NOT recommend replacing everything............

Pay the bill, and enjoy your Paj!! Of course, when it gets bit older, look at how far you can likely extend service requirements.

Chz, NK

[Mcnoogle]

Hi Gerald

I'm sure by now you've already made an informed decision and will probably go ahead with the whole shebang, so I'm just going to go ahead and 'preach to the converted.
In my opinion, a cambelt service is one in which you have to take advantage of a bad situation and make it so that you can get your moneys worth, i.e. replace everything you can while all the belts are off, I have heard from many sources that you need to replace pulleys and tensioners whwn doing the cambelt, on its own, the plugs also need a bit more labour than expected, as 3 of them are easy to get to while the other three are not, same goes for exaust manifold etc, etc, this is one of the issues with tgese V6 motors, thus save bucks by doing your plugs then too, including water pump and all your hoses, as Achille (nino62) mentioned, if you shop around for your parts, you should be able to save there, amd pay for labour once, if yu have a mechanic that is pedantic about soing a proper job then your really lucky, a mechanic with a concience is not easily spotted. If you have enough time, try to get a list from him of parts needed and source them yourself or at least compare prices with his, also as Achille mentioned, unless you know of a more superior product/make, try to buy the cheaper items from the agents. I hope all works out well for you, hopefully I can convince myself to do the same, I've been putting off the same service because of rhe cost involved (anyone want to buy a kidney, I have one spare left)
Cheers
Ned

[mitch2]

Hi Gerald

Want to know if you were satisfied with the service you received from this guy in Bellville. I need some advice.
Have a 3.2 did and sometimes I getting a oil type of smell , pretty sure comming from the gearbox and want someone to look at it.

If so, can you send me his details please.

Thanks

John

[gerald randall]

This is exactly what this club is about. People with different experiences sharing with each other so we can all enjoy and get the most out of our Pajeros. OK, so it cost me R28,873. Without the service on the gearbox, which went to Triangle. That was another R1,570. The reality is that for a living this mechanic actually restores classic cars and also old tractors. No, not five year old JD, but 40 year old machines. He and his father have an absolute passion for vehicles. The nice thing also is that he works on the vehicles himself. Not a bunch of appies who are learning on your vehicle. Takes in small amounts of vehicles in a day and that is it. His preferred brand is Cruiser/Toyota, but he knows Pajero well. When I went to see him about the vehicle before bringing it in, he could tell me exactly what has to be done when and how and he said he only uses the plat plugs and he will be replacing the tensioners/pulleys (R3,300 without labour and excluding the belts, another R2,000). The list of parts is 1.5 pages long. Bolts, o-rings, seals, etc. The smallest detail he notices and replaces. But it comes at a cost.

He is a perfectionist, not in a hurry, replaces easily. What I did notice is to ask for exact prices. He does not know them off hand and sometimes estimates much lower prices than actual prices. Toyota prices are cheaper. He prefers using parts from the dealer, but filters and such, he will get replacement parts.

He did a lot, and his labour was R5,200 + VAT. Very reasonable.

Now that I know him and how he works, I know to ask him to tell me what is wrong, what it will cost and if there is not a cheaper, but effective way to solve the problem.

On another front. My gearbox went in for a service becasue it sometimes did not want to do into drive when it is cold. Have it serviced and now it is doing the strsgnest things. First, if put in drive, when it moves from 2nd to 3rd gear, it would seem to not go into 3rd gear, vehicle slows and the neutral light on the dash flashes. I then drove it in super shift and it worked fine in all gears. Then from yesterday, it drove in drive perfectly and still does today also. BUT, now it does not want to go into reverse at all.

ANY ADVICE, besides to take it back to Triangle, becasue their first reaction is to recon the box. Estimate R12K to R18k. As we all know, it is likely to be closer to the top end of the estimate. Not really interested to just have the box reconed. Especially now. Someone said to me that they had an electronic problem like that. Which was sorted and now no problem. But, when Triangle opened it for the service (take off sump), they found clutch material in the sump. They say likely to be rear clutch (has something like 6 clutches), between 1st and reverse. Which seems to make sense, but how they moved from that to recon the box, seems to be a big jump.

Someone proposed buying a used box and having that fitted. Estimate: R3,000 for the box and R2,000 to have it fitted. Still do not know if it is the box or the electronics. Although, it has over the past few days/ weeks been going into gear hard at times. Not very smoothly, which is not electronic. So it is probably mechanical.

ANY IDEAS.

[4ePikanini]

Diagnosing autoboxes are very hard as they are very complex creatures.

If the tiptronic works fine it may be an electrical fault.

I would
- try another flush of the fluid
- disconnect battery for a few minutes to clear the box's memory
- failing those I would first try another gearbox ecu and failing all of the above I would get a used box, have it flushed, filled tested and fitted

[gerald randall]

Thanks Marius.

Impatience wanted me to just have it fixed and worry about cost later, but the reality is this can get VERY expensive. Triangle says they would propose that the box be recon at R12,000 to R18,000.

I spoke to someone in the northern suburbs, Louw Bosch, who races and they work on maual gearboxes. He proposed Triangle, but did give me a name of someone in Brackenfell (Dawie) who runs a small workshop specialising in auto gearboxes. It is a small messy workshop, but he is apparently good. He take son thre or four gearboxes a week and that is it. Very eager, uses language that everyone can understand.

Gearbox is no longer working smoothly in tip-tronic. It does not go into reverse and either does not want to go into third, or slips out of third or skips third and goes into fourth if I am going fast enough. He explained to me that if the third gear gives problems, the reverse will always give problems, and vice versa. They work off the same clutch system. When the Pajero is put into D, it does not mean that it will pull away in 1st gear. Pull away fast and it will gear down to 1st, but pull away slowly or slow down at a yield sign and it is likely to pull away in 2nd gear or even more likely 3rd gear. To make sure it is a smooth drive. In most auto boxes, he tells me, the third gear works the hardest of all the gears (and also the clutch that works it). Going up steep hills, with load, and it will gear bown to 3rd gear - true. He tells me that 1st gear and 2nd gear is generally only used during 4x4 (or pulling away with a load or fast - the computer guages this when the accelarator pedal drops). Otherwise the pull away is too ridget for normal driving. Seems to make sense. His proposal is to take the box out, open it, replace the clutch kit, seals, filter and fluid. The battery has been disconnected and the problem still persists. When driving her slowly, she does not skip third, but reverse still does not engage. Very annoying.

To do all that he charges R8,500. If anything else is broken a bit more. He tee=lls me that a gearbox is in fact made to last up to 500,000km, so often the componenets are still fine, just the seals and the clutches go. Secondhand box (low mileage) is R12,500, service is another R1,500.

Pieter, who serviced the vehicle only works on manual gearbaxes and has proposed that I have Triangel do the work. I will ask Triangle on Tuesday, what their price is for the equivalent work. They are very reputable. But, Louw Bosch does say Dawie is as good, just a much smaller operation. Hence a lot cheaper.