[Smiddi]

I had my vehicle checked out and it seems that the jumping out of first problem is a simple one to fix. The selector plate wears away slightly and as a result does not put the gearbox fully into 1st gear. Some wear on the fork can also contribute. Should only have been about 2 or 3k to fix.

Unfortunately I have now discovered that my dual mass flywheel and clutch has also gone This does not seem like a cheap fix. Does anyone know of a place to get cheaper spares or perhaps verify that the 2.8 Diesel clutch and flywheel assembly will work with no modification? Any suggestions would be welcome too.

[4ePajero]

There is valuable info in these two threads:

"Where to replace ..."

"3.2Di-D flywheeel ..."

[Smiddi]

After a bit of research, I have decided to go for the more expensive option of just replacing the Dual mass flywheel and steer well, well away from a solid replacement. A solid flywheel will work but the chances that I will have problems in the future with my gear box, bearings or engine is too high.

The DMF are known to give problems but it will be another 200 000 km before I'd have to worry about it again. Considering I haven't had a day of trouble with anything else on my vehicle, this is not the end of the world and would rather not take shortcuts which are going to cost me more money or reliability at the end of the day.

Basically the DMF helps reduce shock on the components of your drive train generated by these diesel engines.

For those that are interested in some of the more technical findings see below:

Modern diesel engines generate high torque
It's the frequency domain view of a dual mass flywheel as a mechanical low pass filter that is important here. It isn't the level of torque output of modern diesels that's the problem - at least not in a direct sense, it's actually how suddenly this torque is built up during a cylinder firing event.

The sudden pressure rise in the cylinder, and hence the sudden change in torque at the crank means that there is a lot more torsional vibration content spread across a broader range of frequencies. Mathematically, this translation between the time and frequency domains is expressed by the Fourier transform - without delving into the maths, you can say that something sudden and rapid in the time domain is spread out across a broad range of frequencies.

The dual mass flywheel allows the low frequency part of the torque [the very low frequency component of torque is actually the part of the spectrum which drives the car along!] to pass to the driveline, while it prevents the high frequency noise and vibration passing into the driveline, preventing it from being transmitted to the car.


There have been reports of problems with solid flywheel kits. These engines have had their harmonics tuned to use a DMF - without one, there have been unwanted side-effects like cam-belts fretting and failing from "crank chatter."

It's the high power output of diesel engines. As the crank turns every piston has to compress a huge amount of air forced in by high turbo pressure - which slow it's rotation speed markedly - and then it's spun forwards by a massive surge from the combustion of that charge.

This rapid slowing and acceleration of the crank's rotation causes an engine to rock on it's mounts and would vibrate the whole car unless you smoothed it with a very heavy flywheel.

The two-part DMF allows the crank to move independently of the clutch and smooths out the pulses that way for much less weight - while it lasts....

[CATS]

Smiddi

Did you take your vehicle to the same gearbox place as I did? If so what reason was given for your DMF being shot? Was the insides not doing it viscous thing anymore? Would be interesting to know as I was very worried to replace just my clutch and not the Dual Mass Flywheel at the same time, but so far it seems to be working perfectly for me. Hopefully the gearbox shop that advised me is right in their assesment of my DMF still being in good order.

CATS

[Smiddi]

CATS

Yes I did take it to the same place. My DMF started to leak the grease that is inside. Apparently some use rubber mountings between the "two" masses but the Pajero ones are a viscus type that have a thick grease inside.
I hadn't felt too much wrong. There was a very slight shudder sometimes when I shifted into 2nd, but didn't feel serious nor was it getting worse... From other peoples descriptions it sounds like that was a sign.
They discovered the leaked grease when trying to fix the jumping out of first problem.

[tsblack]

Hiya

I have this jumping out of 1st gear issue with my Pajero now; approximately 250k on the clock. Mitspro have quoted about R6k to repair it and Centurion Gearbox and Diff have suggested minimum will be R7k going up to R12k.

Ouch! Anyone done this recently, were those the kind of prices you paid?

Cheers

-Thomas

[Smiddi]

Hi Thomas,

That's about what I paid too for that portion of the work (a little less because it was a while ago). The majority of the work as I understood it was get your gear box in & out.

[tsblack]

Hi All

An update from my side. This sounds like it's a common problem when these gearboxes reach a certain age, so I was really hoping to find a shop that could give me an upper limit on the cost (assuming no surprises).

As per my previous mail, Centurion Gearbox and Diff quotes a minimum of R7k going to up R12k; didn't seem at all familiar with the problem.

Mitspro were familiar with the problem and quoted R6k. I couldn't get them on the phone, their line kept on going to voicemail; so I emailed them. I tried to book the car in a few weeks later and was promptly told the cost would be R7.5k. When I reminded them than just a bit further down on the same mail they said it would be R6k, I got the usual "well, we'll have to take it out and see first" response.

I previously had a run-in with Mitspro where I didn't find their attitude particularly good (closer to dishonest actually), so I decided this was a sign to give them a skip.

I phoned around and eventually took it to Transmission and Propshaft Rebuilders in Midrand, dealing with a guy by the name of Frank. Frank seemed to understand the problem and told me I'd have an upper limit of about R7k. Couldn't find any references to their work on any of the 4x4 forums but thought I'd take a chance.

Great service. When I took the car there we had a chat about price and Frank said he'd take a look once it's open and see what his best price was. They said it would take a week to do the work, it took an extra two days because they were waiting for spares.

The retaining plate was replaced, first gear selector fork was replaced and a main shaft bearing. I've had the car for several weeks now and have had no issues at all. It's such a relief not having to worry about whether the vehicle is going to slam out of 1st gear each time you pull away. Only issue I had was that they forgot to drop in the ball-bearing for the reverse light switch. While trying to fix that they broke the switch and had to order another one. That was another week's wait for spares during which time the reverse lights were disconnected.

As promised, once Frank had the box out he gave me a call and told me that the total would be less than R5400. I was happy with the saving and I've been happy with the work. I can definitely suggest them as well should anyone run into this issue.

-Thomas

[larry007]

"The retaining plate was replaced, first gear selector fork was replaced and a main shaft bearing. I've had the car for several weeks now and have had no issues at all. It's such a relief not having to worry about whether the vehicle is going to slam out of 1st gear each time you pull away."

tsblack - On which box was this surgery done? I have a similar issue on my 2.8TDi box.