@CATS,
Thanks for the feedback.
I have to agree with 4ePikanini - the temps should not climb under load like this. There is something fundamentally wrong with Snoopy and with Dusty. A cooling system that, when new, can cope with just about any combination of load and ambient temperatures now becomes marginal.
So far I have done the following:
1. Had Alan Black fit refurbed injectors and check pump operation as part of preventive maintenance.
2. Replaced radiator with 3 core from Silvertons (because header tank of OEM radiator failed when being cleaned at Silvertons).
3. Replaced water pump with OEM water pump as preventive maintenance.
4. Replaced main radiator hoses with OEM hoses as preventive maintenance.
5. Replaced thermostat with OEM thermostat while everything was in pieces (and Yes, I did fit it with the bleed hole topmost).
6. Replaced T-Pieces on heater system with OEM as preventive maintenance.
7. Replaced the rubber seals between A/C condenser and radiator.
8. First topped up the silicone in the original viscous fan clutch and then subsequently doled out for new OEM viscous fan clutch.
9. Removed EGR system completely with blanks at exhaust manifold and EGR valve flange.
10. Removed Catalytic Converter (replaced with mandrel bent section) and fitted a less bulky straight through muffler in place of 1st OEM box (to reduce likelihood of OEM box catching on off road obstacles).
11. Had the intercooler cleand internally and externally and leak tested as part of preventive maintenance.
12. Using 2SO.
I have a nominal 50mm lift, an ARB front bar and standard OEM underbody protection.
I cannot tie the degrade in cooling performance to being eg after fitting the ARB or any other modification event.
On Monday I struck camp in CKGR and probably drove 120km in low range auto at between 30 and 45 km/h gps speed - no problem.
I then drove through the heat of the day (35+C) on tar at around 105km/h gps speed - no problem - temp needle just south of horizontal all day.
Got to Palapaye about 4pm and took a 15 minute break (engine off after idling down the turbo).
When I started the car the needle rapidly rose (after indicating normal temp at switch on) to near red line. So it's like a heatsoak situation and this phenomenon is repeatable.
Drove slowly 70 - 80km/h and very gradually the temp came down - but as soon as I sped up - even to 95km/h gps speed the needle started to rise.
Once evening came and we were through the border the temperature normalised (driving those Limpopo backroads you cant do more than 80 - 85km/h gps speed with all the potholes, animals, bugs on windscreen etc).
Tooled down the N1 at maybe 105km/h gps speed - all fine.
Got to the climb from Menlyn towards Centurion - the temperature started to rise - tapped off and temp returned to normal.
I am beginning to suspect the coolant passages / coolant ports in the block / head.
Anyone got any other thoughts for the benefit of CATS and me?
Andrew
There is of course the well documented temp gauge r10 resistor on the speedo cluster that also leads to funny temp display. Your sudden rise in temp on startup make me think yours might be linked to that??? I ruled out that problem with the installation of my Madman system. It is actually very interesting to see how the temp fluctuate on the Madman where it shows actual degrees against the needle on the dash, which after the last effort almost does not move from just about level after warming up.
CATS
There is of course the well documented temp gauge r10 resistor on the speedo cluster that also leads to funny temp display. Your sudden rise in temp on startup make me think yours might be linked to that??? I ruled out that problem with the installation of my Madman system. It is actually very interesting to see how the temp fluctuate on the Madman where it shows actual degrees against the needle on the dash, which after the last effort almost does not move from just about level after warming up.
CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
Affiliate Member
Cats : Are you saying your OEM gauge doesn't move but the madman shows temp increase?
The OEM gauge stays in the middle under a wide variety of "safe" temperatures. If it moves at all upwards it's already bloody hot and something is amiss.
The gauge problem with the temp gauge is a sporadic one and the temperature will vary very quickly. Not slowly as you guys describe.
The OEM gauge stays in the middle under a wide variety of "safe" temperatures. If it moves at all upwards it's already bloody hot and something is amiss.
The gauge problem with the temp gauge is a sporadic one and the temperature will vary very quickly. Not slowly as you guys describe.
@CATS,
As 4eP says, the needle movement certainly appears to reflect temperature fluctuations rather than R10.
But I do need to strip some of the dash anyway to replace one of the Rear Wheel Drive indicator lamps so I will resolder at the same time.
Also found that the OEM cigarette lighter socket is loose (was replaced by stealers many moons ago after I cooked the fusible link) so will fix that too.
As 4eP says, the needle movement certainly appears to reflect temperature fluctuations rather than R10.
But I do need to strip some of the dash anyway to replace one of the Rear Wheel Drive indicator lamps so I will resolder at the same time.
Also found that the OEM cigarette lighter socket is loose (was replaced by stealers many moons ago after I cooked the fusible link) so will fix that too.
First thing to confirm, is that the engine IS actually getting hot.
The fact that the gauge says so, is only true if the gauge is correct (ask a workshop to loan you one).
Fit an aftermarket gauge temporarily or use an infra-red temperature scanner to confirm the engine temperature.
If you have confirmed that the engine DOES in fact get hot, then start looking for the cause of the problem.
A slow rise in temperature indicates a small difference in the radiator being able to dissipate heat, and the heat generated by the engine.
If the radiator is beyond suspicion, then you could have a circulation problem, caused by any of the below:
The fact that the gauge says so, is only true if the gauge is correct (ask a workshop to loan you one).
Fit an aftermarket gauge temporarily or use an infra-red temperature scanner to confirm the engine temperature.
If you have confirmed that the engine DOES in fact get hot, then start looking for the cause of the problem.
A slow rise in temperature indicates a small difference in the radiator being able to dissipate heat, and the heat generated by the engine.
If the radiator is beyond suspicion, then you could have a circulation problem, caused by any of the below:
- Passages
- Hoses
- Thermostat
- Water pump
Gerhard Fourie
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
If you want to shoot somebody, make sure you aim at his head, not your own foot.
Me
Cats,
This is a shot in the darkest part of engine and coolant technology: Some cylinder head gaskets have an upper and lower side (side towards the block and side towards the head). When correctly installed, all the holes (water ports) in the gasket will align with the holes in the block and the head. If per chance the technician installed it upside down some of the waterhole might not align with its opposite number in the head and will as a result block/reduce water flow.
I have no idea if this can happen to the Pajero engine cylinder head gasket, but if all else fail????
Cloyd
This is a shot in the darkest part of engine and coolant technology: Some cylinder head gaskets have an upper and lower side (side towards the block and side towards the head). When correctly installed, all the holes (water ports) in the gasket will align with the holes in the block and the head. If per chance the technician installed it upside down some of the waterhole might not align with its opposite number in the head and will as a result block/reduce water flow.
I have no idea if this can happen to the Pajero engine cylinder head gasket, but if all else fail????
Cloyd
Cloyd
I truly hope that you are wrong as I seriously cannot bear the engine coming out again!
although it does puff a grey smoke every now and again on startup which I don't like from a new engine. )
It definitely seem better now heat wise after coolant flush and change to Mitsu OEM coolant, all cowlings and sponges on side of radiator installed and thermostat changed again etc. The needle barely move past the middle where before it was easy to get to the red when pushed hard, so maybe it is sorted, but i still don't like seeing the actual reading creeping up on a long uphill. I always worry who is gonna win? The hill or the cooling system? Surely a healthy cooling system should be able to cope without creeping up? Anyway maybe i should just drive mine a bit more before I give final verdict! Maybe I am just eagle eyeing that temp reading to much, now that i can see each degree movement so accurately.
CATS
I truly hope that you are wrong as I seriously cannot bear the engine coming out again!
although it does puff a grey smoke every now and again on startup which I don't like from a new engine. )It definitely seem better now heat wise after coolant flush and change to Mitsu OEM coolant, all cowlings and sponges on side of radiator installed and thermostat changed again etc. The needle barely move past the middle where before it was easy to get to the red when pushed hard, so maybe it is sorted, but i still don't like seeing the actual reading creeping up on a long uphill. I always worry who is gonna win? The hill or the cooling system? Surely a healthy cooling system should be able to cope without creeping up? Anyway maybe i should just drive mine a bit more before I give final verdict! Maybe I am just eagle eyeing that temp reading to much, now that i can see each degree movement so accurately.
CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
Affiliate Member
I highly doubt the 4m41 head gasket can be installed upside down.
Any car will show pretty large fluctuations in accurate temperature readings. The touareg has an oil temp gauge and that fluctuates 30 degrees depending on how hard the car is working. If the gauge wasn't there I would have no idea as the coolant temp gauge doesn't move.
As long as the original equipped gauge stays absolutely still the cooling system is working as it should. If the factory gauge is moving upwards at all there is an issue. If it doesn't move at all, then it is fine and you shouldn't stress.
The accurate reading via madman is useful for towing and idling down as it let's you know when the engine is working hard or when it has returned to normal temperature for shutdown.
Any car will show pretty large fluctuations in accurate temperature readings. The touareg has an oil temp gauge and that fluctuates 30 degrees depending on how hard the car is working. If the gauge wasn't there I would have no idea as the coolant temp gauge doesn't move.
As long as the original equipped gauge stays absolutely still the cooling system is working as it should. If the factory gauge is moving upwards at all there is an issue. If it doesn't move at all, then it is fine and you shouldn't stress.
The accurate reading via madman is useful for towing and idling down as it let's you know when the engine is working hard or when it has returned to normal temperature for shutdown.
Agree with 4ePajero. If you cant put numbers to it, it's hard to comment on coolant over or under temperatures.
OK so maybe I must stop worrying about the temp. I am still not sure the cause is rectified as I today noticed that AB wired the electric fan, working with the aircon condensor, to work full time! So they basically tried their damnest to keep the temp down with all possibke means! Question is - Why does it rise so much in the first place that the cooling system has to be on it absolute max capacity used just to keep it normal???
Another thing I noticed after I have had the use of my car for a while now is that it blows a plume of grey smoke on startup every now and again, especially after standing for a while - valve stem.seals? But that was replaced with the rebuild? Also it is using oil! A LOT of oil, about a pint and a half per tank!!!
I am again at the bottom of the emotional rollercoaster of engine rebuilds!!! Surely this is not what a rebuild engine costing me close on R100'000, if you include the pump rebuild, act???
What do I do? This has basically draged on for the whole of 2014!
In hindsight I should maybe have just stuck another Common rail 3.2 Did in there and redo the wiring and ecu or maybe even have done the Lexus engine thing. My rebuild idea at this stage seems to have been a mistake
CATS
Another thing I noticed after I have had the use of my car for a while now is that it blows a plume of grey smoke on startup every now and again, especially after standing for a while - valve stem.seals? But that was replaced with the rebuild? Also it is using oil! A LOT of oil, about a pint and a half per tank!!!
I am again at the bottom of the emotional rollercoaster of engine rebuilds!!! Surely this is not what a rebuild engine costing me close on R100'000, if you include the pump rebuild, act???
What do I do? This has basically draged on for the whole of 2014!
In hindsight I should maybe have just stuck another Common rail 3.2 Did in there and redo the wiring and ecu or maybe even have done the Lexus engine thing. My rebuild idea at this stage seems to have been a mistake
CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)