I have a 2008 3.2 litre Diesel 3 door Pajero with 40 000 kms on the clock. I have had a gearbox failure that the dealer claims is due to water mixing with the oil in the transmission and they say it is not a warrantable failure. This vehicle has been fully serviced in accordance with requirements since new and is under warranty. In August 2009 I took the vehicle off road and through water and for 6 months thereafter I have had no problems with operation. The vehicle operated perfectly well at the time and the water did not come up to the top of the bonnet. It only went where other Pajero's, Land Rovers, Toyota's NISSAN's etc went. No water came inside the drivers compartment, nor was there any water in the engine air intake (which is standard and not a snorkel type). The first thing that we knew of the failure was oil being pushed out of the transmission breather, 6 months after the off road trip and now the dealer is trying to claim driver abuse, which obviously I do not agree with. Surely a Pajero is designed to drive through water like other 4 x 4's? If this information gets out, it will be very serious for the Pajero reputation. Please if anybody can give me any advice on how to make Mercedes Benz honour a warranty claim on this. Thanks in advance.
Afternoon Geoff
My opinion is that water cannot enter the transmission other than the route that is used to fill it with ATF i.e. the dipstick tube, thus it cannot be owner abuse as claimed by the agents.
What I have experienced in a different application is that the integrity of the ATF oil cooler (built in heat exchanger) in the bottom half of the radiator is compromised and water leaks under pressure (miniscule amounts over time) into the transmission until such time it makes itself evident. This happened to me after an accident repair on a radiator and cost a substantial amount for a transmission rebuild and the other with our commercial vehicles fitted with auto boxes.
The question is- has there been a gradual loss of coolant over a period of time?
Perhaps this will help.
Regards
Frans Glanvill
My opinion is that water cannot enter the transmission other than the route that is used to fill it with ATF i.e. the dipstick tube, thus it cannot be owner abuse as claimed by the agents.
What I have experienced in a different application is that the integrity of the ATF oil cooler (built in heat exchanger) in the bottom half of the radiator is compromised and water leaks under pressure (miniscule amounts over time) into the transmission until such time it makes itself evident. This happened to me after an accident repair on a radiator and cost a substantial amount for a transmission rebuild and the other with our commercial vehicles fitted with auto boxes.
The question is- has there been a gradual loss of coolant over a period of time?
Perhaps this will help.
Regards
Frans Glanvill
Water can also enter via the transmission breather system if it is faulty.
Gerrit Loubser 
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
Geoff
The owners manual state that when doing severe operating conditions,like off-road work including water crossings etc that it needs to be serviced accordingly. Did you inform the dealer that you did some water crossing at the service after the event. If you followed the severe operating service schedule or if your vehicle is still within those parameters when this failure ocured you should be 100% covered I would say. They must then proof abuse and also proof that water was the cause for this failure.
I always replace all diff and transmission oils in any case at the next service after some water crossings as I believe it to be cheap insurance should the oil have become contaminated in any way.
CATS
The owners manual state that when doing severe operating conditions,like off-road work including water crossings etc that it needs to be serviced accordingly. Did you inform the dealer that you did some water crossing at the service after the event. If you followed the severe operating service schedule or if your vehicle is still within those parameters when this failure ocured you should be 100% covered I would say. They must then proof abuse and also proof that water was the cause for this failure.
I always replace all diff and transmission oils in any case at the next service after some water crossings as I believe it to be cheap insurance should the oil have become contaminated in any way.
CATS
2009 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS (Gen4) - Casper (Starting to grow on me)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
2001 Pajero 3.2 DiD Lwb GLS Manual (Gen3) - Snoopy (SOLD but not forgotten)
2008 Pajero 3.2 DiDc Lwb GLS Auto (Gen4) - Silvester (SOLD)
NOPE.Frans Glanvill wrote:My opinion is that water cannot enter the transmission other than the route that is used to fill it with ATF
The gearbox (as well as the diffs) have breathers fitted. In the Pajero the breather is situated on top of the gearbox (two of them from my memory) which will pull water due to gearbox cooling and hence contracting.
See also here: http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/sho ... php?t=9154 on our Ozzi friends forum
Geoff, I also have a 3door pajero and had same problems as yours. Had been with my car on water once only... about 1 1/2 years ago. Now, 14 sep 2009, transmission failure and dealer refuses to give me warranty accusing me of abuse. What was the outcome of you case? Can you give me some advice? Have a meeting with Mitsubishi rep, next Monday, 20th Sep.
Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks
Solanno Dias
Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks
Solanno Dias
Hi.
I will not name the dealer for obvious reasons, but suffice to say that they are the only one situated in Pretoria. I eventually won the battle, although it took a month to do so.
It all boils down to having had the vehicle serviced by the dealer in accordance withn the requirements in the book of life. I had done so, and faught my cause threateninmg to have an article in the S A 4 x 4 magazine titled "The worst 4 x 4 by far" and I honestly think that they were just so scared that I actually knew what I was talking about. Your vehicle should still be under the motor plan - so the checking of the oils etc is the responsibility of the dealer and he should have picked up the problem of the contaminated oils at the last services.
The manufacturers specifications state that the safe deep water wading depth of the Pajero is only 700 mm, so never admit that the vehicle went deeper. The problem arises when a vehicle goes through cold water and the extent and duration of the submersion is sufficient for the transmission to cool sufficiently internally to cause the transmission breather to suck water into the transmission. This can also happen to both the front and rear diffs as well. Personally, I believe that this is a design flaw on the vehicle and I suggest that all Pajero owners who want to take their vehicles through water, have the breathers extended to the level of the top of the bonnet and even then have a U bend put in place to stop any water from going round the bends and into the transmission ond / or differentials.
In your case, I suggest that you also question the dealer as to why you were not informed of the contamination in the oil when they first attended to the problem, question why you have not had the oils shown to you, ask why they did or did not drain the oil and keep it the moment that the transmission failure came to light - that is the most basic of procedures that they should have followed when the vehicle was reported faulty.
I also believe (although I have no proof) that the dealer easily secuured authority from MBSA to complete the repairs and possibly looked at their profitability and thought they may be able to get away with a stunt - get MBSA to pay the warranty claim, and at the same time screw the client for the repair costs - thereby getting double profits. I have no proof of this, but just suspect that this may have been their agenda. They could have just been working on the principle that most people will give in and roll over in a fight - and that is exactly what you must not do. If you stick to the truth, tell them that you know of another similar failure that was carried earlier this year under warranty, and make sure that they realise that you will tell everybody that you know about what a rubbish dealer they are and what a rubbish product the Pajero is - then just maybe they will see the light and decide to cover the costs. The last thing they need is for the likes of Land Rover and TOYOTA to find out about a failure like this, because it could effectively kill a brand like Pajero.
Lastly, if you are being told the story of the abuse by the service liaison officer or a technician, hurdle him and go to the service manager. If you get no joy from him, then go to the Dealer Principle. Throw all the toys necessary, make all the threats to go to the press etc etc - then they should accommodate you. If they don't, then contact Mercedes Benz directly and place on official complaint. Last chance will be actually going to the press and telling the story. Nobody can'do anything to you becfause you are telling the truth.
Good luck and please keep me posted.
If you want to call me you can on 082 570 0078.
Geoff Miles
I will not name the dealer for obvious reasons, but suffice to say that they are the only one situated in Pretoria. I eventually won the battle, although it took a month to do so.
It all boils down to having had the vehicle serviced by the dealer in accordance withn the requirements in the book of life. I had done so, and faught my cause threateninmg to have an article in the S A 4 x 4 magazine titled "The worst 4 x 4 by far" and I honestly think that they were just so scared that I actually knew what I was talking about. Your vehicle should still be under the motor plan - so the checking of the oils etc is the responsibility of the dealer and he should have picked up the problem of the contaminated oils at the last services.
The manufacturers specifications state that the safe deep water wading depth of the Pajero is only 700 mm, so never admit that the vehicle went deeper. The problem arises when a vehicle goes through cold water and the extent and duration of the submersion is sufficient for the transmission to cool sufficiently internally to cause the transmission breather to suck water into the transmission. This can also happen to both the front and rear diffs as well. Personally, I believe that this is a design flaw on the vehicle and I suggest that all Pajero owners who want to take their vehicles through water, have the breathers extended to the level of the top of the bonnet and even then have a U bend put in place to stop any water from going round the bends and into the transmission ond / or differentials.
In your case, I suggest that you also question the dealer as to why you were not informed of the contamination in the oil when they first attended to the problem, question why you have not had the oils shown to you, ask why they did or did not drain the oil and keep it the moment that the transmission failure came to light - that is the most basic of procedures that they should have followed when the vehicle was reported faulty.
I also believe (although I have no proof) that the dealer easily secuured authority from MBSA to complete the repairs and possibly looked at their profitability and thought they may be able to get away with a stunt - get MBSA to pay the warranty claim, and at the same time screw the client for the repair costs - thereby getting double profits. I have no proof of this, but just suspect that this may have been their agenda. They could have just been working on the principle that most people will give in and roll over in a fight - and that is exactly what you must not do. If you stick to the truth, tell them that you know of another similar failure that was carried earlier this year under warranty, and make sure that they realise that you will tell everybody that you know about what a rubbish dealer they are and what a rubbish product the Pajero is - then just maybe they will see the light and decide to cover the costs. The last thing they need is for the likes of Land Rover and TOYOTA to find out about a failure like this, because it could effectively kill a brand like Pajero.
Lastly, if you are being told the story of the abuse by the service liaison officer or a technician, hurdle him and go to the service manager. If you get no joy from him, then go to the Dealer Principle. Throw all the toys necessary, make all the threats to go to the press etc etc - then they should accommodate you. If they don't, then contact Mercedes Benz directly and place on official complaint. Last chance will be actually going to the press and telling the story. Nobody can'do anything to you becfause you are telling the truth.
Good luck and please keep me posted.
If you want to call me you can on 082 570 0078.
Geoff Miles
I succeeded in getting a new gearbox supplied and fitted at no charge. A month long fight and stubborn refusal to accept their attempts to force the blame on me eventually worked.RoelfleRoux wrote:Gents,
How did this episode end?
Roelf