howzit guys.
well my new to me pajero got its first offroad work out at the weekend.[actually its me who got the workout,first time offroad on 4 wheels]
the car`s capabilities soon exceeded the driver`s.i was out with the community forum guys at chloorkop and a guy by the name of dave took me under his wing and guided me just about everywhere.
i learned a lot and ended up being pretty impressed with the pajero.
i think maybe we should have a few pajero only get to gethers, are there enough guys in gauteng ?
one question though, is the system that my pajero is using.........centre diff lock...a big disadvantage off road when compared to the cars fitted with rear diff locks ?
twice i got hung up ,which i managed to rock out of easily enough but was told if i had rear diff lock i wouldnt have got stuck, your thoughts on this please.
i also found that if i used a little more momentum than the other guys i got through cleanly.
pix to follow...
Site Admin
They don't achieve the same thing. A Centre Diff Lock (CDL) locks the two axles together, while a Rear Diff Lock (RDL) locks the two rear wheels. They are not alternatives. Your vehicle will have a Limited Slip Diff (LSD), which transfers some of the drive to the wheel that is still on the ground, but yes a RDL increases your capability. However, learning to drive a vehicle without RDL will offer you the advantage in that you learn to pick your lines better, although there will be occasions when you'll still need more momentum to get through an obstacle.steve wrote: is the system that my pajero is using.........centre diff lock...a big disadvantage off road when compared to the cars fitted with rear diff locks
Simon Bloomer
I agree completely with Simon.
The Paj has the ability to run in 4wd on tar, something that the 4x4 bakkies typically can't do. In order to make this possible, the Paj has a center diff (which is actually also a viscous limited slip dif, thus making 4H just about the most perfect dirt road set-up possible). When the going gets really tough, the Paj's center diff can be locked (4HLc, 4LLc), which locks the front and rear propshafts together and thus places it in the same state as the typical 4x4 bakkie would be in when 4H or 4L is selected.
Although the Paj's rear limited slip diff (LSD) is better than an open diff in cross-axle situations, its performance is very limited when one wheel on the rear axle is in the air. It is possible to enhance its performance in these situations by applying the park brake or even the lightly applying the foot brake, because the Gen 2 Paj's limited slip diff is of the ramp loading type, i.e. the lock-up ratio is dependent on the amount of torque transferred (which is essentially nothing when a wheel is lifted and which can be increased by generating some resistance to rotation using the brakes). Be aware that the little drum-in-disc park brake shoes are tiny and they wear quickly if you use them a lot to enhance the LSD's operation. You also have to tug on the park brake lever quite hard...
Unfortunately Pajeros are not blessed with the best ability to keep all four tyres on the ground in cross-axle type situations (called "flex" by many). The upshot of this is very tidy handling on tar as well as dirt roads for a vehicle that is quite tall and heavy.
At the front the Gen 2's flex is somewhat better than many torsion bar sprung bakkies due to the long torsion bars employed, but overall the front roll stiffness is quite high and contributes only a small percentage of the total flex.
At the rear the Gen 2 has a beam axle, which bodes well for flex, but unfortunately the dual trailing arm plus Panhard rod suspension location system has high inherent roll stiffness, that increases rapidly and non-linearly as roll increases. Five link systems (as in the rear of the Trooper, Prado or coil sprung Cruisers & Patrols) typically allow much more rear axle flex than the Paj's system.
It might be very worthwhile to experiment with the improvements in flex obtainable by disconnecting either one or both of the anti-roll bars. These devices are designed to provide additional roll stiffness without adding to the vertical suspension stiffness, so they fight flex directly. The greatest improvement in flex will probably result from disconnecting the front anti-roll bar, but be aware that it is not advisable to drive on the tar at high speeds with the front anti-roll bar disconnected. Quick-disconnects are worth investigating...
Adding a rear diff lock does improve the off-road mobility of any vehicle massively, especially one with limited flex. It might be possible to retrofit a locking rear diff from a later model Paj (Blister Fender), but this will depend on the final drive ratio in yours.
Another option is adding a front axle diff lock, which achieves much the same thing as adding a rear diff lock, but does interfere with steering more when engaged. You could fit an ARB selectable air operated diff lock (expensive) or an automatic locker to the front dif.
Or you can decide to enjoy your vehicle as it is, learn how to get the most from it and hone your skills...
The Paj has the ability to run in 4wd on tar, something that the 4x4 bakkies typically can't do. In order to make this possible, the Paj has a center diff (which is actually also a viscous limited slip dif, thus making 4H just about the most perfect dirt road set-up possible). When the going gets really tough, the Paj's center diff can be locked (4HLc, 4LLc), which locks the front and rear propshafts together and thus places it in the same state as the typical 4x4 bakkie would be in when 4H or 4L is selected.
Although the Paj's rear limited slip diff (LSD) is better than an open diff in cross-axle situations, its performance is very limited when one wheel on the rear axle is in the air. It is possible to enhance its performance in these situations by applying the park brake or even the lightly applying the foot brake, because the Gen 2 Paj's limited slip diff is of the ramp loading type, i.e. the lock-up ratio is dependent on the amount of torque transferred (which is essentially nothing when a wheel is lifted and which can be increased by generating some resistance to rotation using the brakes). Be aware that the little drum-in-disc park brake shoes are tiny and they wear quickly if you use them a lot to enhance the LSD's operation. You also have to tug on the park brake lever quite hard...
Unfortunately Pajeros are not blessed with the best ability to keep all four tyres on the ground in cross-axle type situations (called "flex" by many). The upshot of this is very tidy handling on tar as well as dirt roads for a vehicle that is quite tall and heavy.
At the front the Gen 2's flex is somewhat better than many torsion bar sprung bakkies due to the long torsion bars employed, but overall the front roll stiffness is quite high and contributes only a small percentage of the total flex.
At the rear the Gen 2 has a beam axle, which bodes well for flex, but unfortunately the dual trailing arm plus Panhard rod suspension location system has high inherent roll stiffness, that increases rapidly and non-linearly as roll increases. Five link systems (as in the rear of the Trooper, Prado or coil sprung Cruisers & Patrols) typically allow much more rear axle flex than the Paj's system.
It might be very worthwhile to experiment with the improvements in flex obtainable by disconnecting either one or both of the anti-roll bars. These devices are designed to provide additional roll stiffness without adding to the vertical suspension stiffness, so they fight flex directly. The greatest improvement in flex will probably result from disconnecting the front anti-roll bar, but be aware that it is not advisable to drive on the tar at high speeds with the front anti-roll bar disconnected. Quick-disconnects are worth investigating...
Adding a rear diff lock does improve the off-road mobility of any vehicle massively, especially one with limited flex. It might be possible to retrofit a locking rear diff from a later model Paj (Blister Fender), but this will depend on the final drive ratio in yours.
Another option is adding a front axle diff lock, which achieves much the same thing as adding a rear diff lock, but does interfere with steering more when engaged. You could fit an ARB selectable air operated diff lock (expensive) or an automatic locker to the front dif.
Or you can decide to enjoy your vehicle as it is, learn how to get the most from it and hone your skills...
Gerrit Loubser 
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
Site Admin
Watch this space... My quick disconnects should be ready soon....Gerrit Loubser wrote: It might be very worthwhile to experiment with the improvements in flex obtainable by disconnecting either one or both of the anti-roll bars. These devices are designed to provide additional roll stiffness without adding to the vertical suspension stiffness, so they fight flex directly. The greatest improvement in flex will probably result from disconnecting the front anti-roll bar, but be aware that it is not advisable to drive on the tar at high speeds with the front anti-roll bar disconnected. Quick-disconnects are worth investigating...
Simon Bloomer
ok,we are watching this space.
gerrit thanks a lot for that reply it was well worth reading and very nicely laid out.
as you said , i can fart arse around forever or enjoy it as it is,i`m going to enjoy myself and "bathe in the glory" of cleaning obstacles that more highly spec`ed vehicles are sitting in.
cheers.
gerrit thanks a lot for that reply it was well worth reading and very nicely laid out.
as you said , i can fart arse around forever or enjoy it as it is,i`m going to enjoy myself and "bathe in the glory" of cleaning obstacles that more highly spec`ed vehicles are sitting in.
cheers.
Unlike the LWB the 3l SWB Pajero is not fitted with LSD or difflock.
a Center portion with difflock from the blister fender are just impossible to find.
I am at this stage replacing my entire rear axle with the rear axle from a LWB with difflock.
a Center portion with difflock from the blister fender are just impossible to find.
I am at this stage replacing my entire rear axle with the rear axle from a LWB with difflock.
Attachments:
Jaco, are you sure it does not have a limited slip diff in the rear?
Gerrit Loubser
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 VX TD
2003 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD LWB A/T Gone & missed
1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5E GRX M/T: Gone & missed
1996 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 VX 4.5 EFI A/T: SOLD
Site Admin
I am not aware of ANY Gen2 or Gen 2.5 SWB Pajero that were available in SA that did NOT have factory fitted LSD or RDL.
Simon Bloomer
Guys I am pretty sure.
I am not talking about the gen2.5.
Look at the attached diff diagrams.
All of the gen2 SWB that I have come accross are fitted with a normal diff.
Most of the gen 2 LWB that I have come accross are fitted with LSD.
Easy way to test for LSD is to spin it on a gravel road and have one of your buddies check if on or both wheels start to spin. If only one wheel is spinning it is not fitted with LSD. If after about 1 meter the both wheels are spinning it is fitted with LSD.
I am not talking about the gen2.5.
Look at the attached diff diagrams.
All of the gen2 SWB that I have come accross are fitted with a normal diff.
Most of the gen 2 LWB that I have come accross are fitted with LSD.
Easy way to test for LSD is to spin it on a gravel road and have one of your buddies check if on or both wheels start to spin. If only one wheel is spinning it is not fitted with LSD. If after about 1 meter the both wheels are spinning it is fitted with LSD.
Attachments:
- Normal diff
Site Admin
I think Gerrit or Christo might be the best to answer but I personally have not seen any Shortie Gen2's down here that DONT have a LSD (or RDL).
Best method to test is jack up both rear wheels. If the other wheel turns in the opposite direction to the one you are turning then it's an open diff, and if both wheels turn in the same direction then the LSD is fitted.
Best method to test is jack up both rear wheels. If the other wheel turns in the opposite direction to the one you are turning then it's an open diff, and if both wheels turn in the same direction then the LSD is fitted.
Simon Bloomer